blonde poker forum

Action talks, bullshit walks.....as a follow on to the other thread.

What if anything are you going to do  differently to do to help the environment going forward? Even if nothing just say so....

- I try and choose food packing that is as minimal on plastic as possible, I’d do it a lot more if it was made easy for me, the food industry need to make it easier for me
- My wife has recently gone veggie, having tasted some of her food I will eat less meat, won’t give it up but will eat less for sure, the better meat substitutes taste the more I would be willing to eat them.

What about you lot?

I’m not stopping going on holidays that’s for sure, can tell you that right now......are those rattling on about it doing their bit about this?

I'm a minimal consumer of just about everything, walk to the shops and haven't taken a flight in 7 years because of my concern about the environment. Pretty puritanical. Wish more people were like me

^ Fair enough mate, there’s a few jokes that spring to mind but in the spirit you doing the right thing I’ll spare you on this occasion   :)

All in :D

I’m glad something had come up like this.

Now and then I do online shopping (when a promo), but I am appalled by supermarkets on how they pack their groceries. Ocado recently sent me my order with 7 bags, but yet it would fit in three. They told me it’s how products are packed. This is similar across all supermarkets. I literally get a multi-pack guna & bog roll in one bag. In that bag they could have included much more.

It’s worrying when this is happening across all supermarkets. How much plastic is this wasting?

I have been avoiding single use plastic bags for a long time, and do try and cut down on all plastic.  You can but veggies loose, and get meat from the counter, but I do struggle with milk, juices etc.  Growing my own berries and tomatoes cuts down on plastic for the warmer months of the year.  My wife gets shopping online when she does it and I get grumpy about all the bags and plastic in the fridge.

I worked next to a Vegan 3 or 4 years ago, and since then I have tried to cut meat down. In things like chilli, you can't really tell if it is quorn or minced beef.  When I cook roast chicken I get a smaller chicken and get loads of veg etc.  I don't really eat a lot of beef and lamb these days.  I don't know if it is just psychological, but I definitely feel better cooking things from scratch, cutting down on meat and avoiding ready meals.

My daughter is badgering me to get an electric car, but I can't really afford a newish car right now.  I will definitely consider one strongly when I reach that stage.  Even though I sometimes have to travel a distance for work, the ranges of these new vehicles mean it is possible to do them in an electric car nowadays. 

I was going to get a greenhouse to extend the growing season, but can building that be more environmentally friendily than just buying stuff in a shop?  My shed is knacked, and I have no idea whether I should get a plastic one as it isn't going to go rotten and fall apart like my old wooden one, but not sure on this.  Because it is longer lasting, does it cause less damage to the environment than the 3 wooden sheds I would need in the same time?  Or does the next fellla in this house just go "I am getting rid of that plastic monstrosity"?  

Still fly too much though, but am happy to get the train up to Scotland from down South.  

When I started thinking about this thread, I struggled to think of a single thing I have done to be more "green" or eco-friendly than previously.

Of course, I want us to behave more responsibly, but I could not think of anything I'd done to help.

Then it occurred to me that those flimsy single use plastic bags were banned from Supermarkets in October 2015. My local supermarket gave away free, very strong "lifetime" plastic bags for a few weeks, & I got one. 4 years later that bag is torn & tattered, but still surviving.

I shop every day, as I like fresh bananas & tomatoes, so I've used that bag some 1,500 times. More to the point, that's 1,500 single use bags not used by one person.

Multiply that by a street, an area, a town or whatever, that's an awful lot of plastic not used.

I don't suppose it will save the world - nothing will - but every little must help.

I have more to do of course - I aspire to be a saint, like that nirvana fella, the one who used to be a wino, but I fear I am not worthy.  

Here's nirvana trying to scare us with his mean & menacing guise.  



(http://i.imgur.com/j7BIdc9.png) (https://imgur.com/j7BIdc9)

A lot of supermarkets now do bagless home deliveries.

Tesco only do bagless deliveries for home deliveries now (they stopped offering the bagged service a few months ago).

At least he is consistent, one supermarket delivers with bags, so they must all deliver with bags.  :D

Personally I haven't done much, I relentlessly forget to take a bag with me to the shop, I love eating lots of meat and I have just ordered another diesel motor.

Work wise I have done a bit better, last year we had a bio-mass boiler installed and 100% LED lighting.

I'll be switching to an electric car next time. Probably in a couple of years.

Did a Vegan week a while back just as a trial. Since then I've used Koko on cereal instead of milk, so milk consumption has gone right down. Only use it for tea, coffee and cat purposes now. Koko is the nuts on cereal tbf.

Meat substitutes suck. If they ever find something decent I'd happily switch.

Wait. Choppy has a CAT?

What is its name?

i walk a lot more in last year (as im only 15 mins walk from work). But apart from that i cant really say ive changed too much

Only ever been known as Fatboy. Big black tom who weighs in at a whopping 8.5kg. Coming up 17, has arthritis and breathing issues that need steroids but still loves life.

Can't beat cats.

I don't do anything particularly. I'm not going to stop flying, driving a diesel car or eating meat. but I don't discard plastic or anything else except in a suitable place.

I take all my own waste to the recycling centre and make sure it's all sorted into the proper categories, which is a lot of sorting.

Green waste
Textiles
Wood
Florescent tubes, bulbs and batteries.
Rigid plastic
soft plastic
Cardboard
Scrap metal
Large electrical
Small electrical
Non recyclable (Food waste & heavily soiled packaging, carpets, beds, polythene, polystyrene)
Hardcore & Glass
Gas canisters.

I'm pretty much pescatarian now, can't remember the last time I ate red meat. At home it's either fish or vegan meatballs, mince etc. or veg chillis, curries etc.

I'm the nut worst for forgetting to take a bag to the supermarket, was pleased to see Morrisons now only have paper bags to buy.


https://www.waitrose.com/ecom/products/vivera-veggie-shawarma-kebab/472425-629172-629173

Our eldest son is vegan and makes doner kebabs with this stuff, tastes awesome imo.

I went as green as I could when doing a recent house refurb. Solar panels, loads of insulation, LEDs everywhere, air source heat pump.

Also got a battery to store the excess solar produced during the day but they aren't really eco.

The house doesn't have gas at all and my net usage is about 2000kWh for a year. It was 20000kWh at my old house when you added gas and electric and that was an EPC 'C' so not exactly terrible.

I'll be getting an electric car in April. I was probably getting one anyway but the changes to BIK taking them down to 0% makes it an absolute no brainer in my circumstances.

I try to do as much as I can but I'm under no illusions that I'm in any way 'eco'. I could live in a house a quarter of the size and plan on buying a Renault Zoe instead of a Tesla but I don't because I like nice things. I just try to do my best whilst maintaining the standard of living I like to enjoy.

My land fill wheelie bin gets put out about once every two months. I generate one small bag of waste per week and the rest gets recycled. The recycling bin only goes out every 6 weeks or so as well.

I avoid single use plastic wherever I can but it's so difficult.

Work gets through an obscene amount of unnecessary plastic mainly from suppliers. The amount of items that are individually packaged in plastic bags is disgusting. Some of them are changing to use cardboard instead. It doesn't seem that much better to me but these days it's all about single use plastic so we're switching to cardboard where possible.

I'm thinking of giving up apostrophes.

Was almost red meat free during the summer months when local fresh veggies were abundant but falling off that wagon now.

I find stews irresistable during the winter.

The most significant change I’ve made recently is carrying my own coffee cup to work. A rough calculation is that I use 400 fewer disposable cups and save £200 a year from the reduced cost.

Oh, and the coffee tastes so much better.

How long do you think it will be before viable battery storage options are available for the home Matt?
Last time I dropped into the college near me, one of the level 4 guys was also there and said he though it was at least 3 or 4 years away before we start to see them. Obviously the energy companies don't want to see people making and storing their own electricity.

I wonder when they will make a battery that doesn't degrade?

The phone companies would sulfate themselves.

Sulfate?

It's a technical term we battery geeks use.

This is a great example of where someone like Aaron could make a genuine difference.

Simply shop at Tesco instead of Ocado but also let Ocado know the reason you're boycotting them. If they change their ways you'll go back, if not then you'll never shop there again.

Incoming essay........

3 or 4 years seems reasonable but in my opinion it's not because of battery prices but more the energy companies getting on board that they'll become feasible.

Even if the price of the actual batteries comes down you have other associated costs that won't change. Tesla are quick to point out that a battery 'only' costs £5000. Once you add an inverter, controller and a bloke to fit the thing you're at £7200 which adds significantly to the payback period. So if the battery prices halve in the next 5 years which I guess they will you're still looking at just shy of £5k for a battery once fitted which makes them a luxury item for geeks rather than an essential item for the financially savvy.

The savings that I make don't mainly come from the solar panels charging up the battery although that obviously helps. During winter I can charge the battery on my economy 7 electric and then use that during the day to power my heat pump through the evening. Over the last 12 months I've purchased about 500kWh of peak electric and 3200 of off-peak. It means my total bill including heating is about £360 per year.

This works well for me because my usage of electric is high due to the air source heat pump providing my heating. If I was on gas then I'd never save enough on my electric bill to make either the battery or solar viable.

What's starting to happen now though is a few energy companies will let you charge your battery during cheap hours and then discharge it back to the grid during expensive hours. Thanks to 'smart' tech it can all be done automatically and any person with a compatible battery can become their own mini supplier. You may be able to buy 10kWh off the energy company at low demand time for 50p and then sell it back during peak demand for £1.50.

It doesn't seem a lot but when you're talking double figure year pay back times then every pound counts.

I need to write a separate post here. This is a TL;DR already

Incoming geek post:

Going back to a previous point here's some food for thought about the financial viability of solar and batteries:

I spend £360 per year on my electric bill and zero on gas because I don't have it.

Let's say most people spend £1200 per year on their bills then I'm £840 better off which seems nice.

The battery and solar package together cost about £13000. However the saving I make wouldn't be realised if I hadn't also spent £7000 on a air source heat pump. This means I'm in for £20k to achieve a saving of £840 over what I would've paid had I just gone gas/electric. Let's say a gas boiler would've cost £2000 anyway so it's actually cost £18k on day one

You don't need a calculator to see that the payback period is one hell of a long time if we just leave it at that.

Now let's bring in our friendly Government and their various eco incentives. I get £282 per quarter for 7 years on the heat pump which is about £7900. Heat pumps are incredibly efficient so you get an incentive due to the reduced carbon emissions they produce. For every kWh of energy that goes in to a heat pump you get about 3kWh of heat out meaning they're 300% efficient compared to the best gas boilers at about 85 to 90% efficient. You can also power a heat pump using renewable energy which then makes them 100% carbon free. How nice is that :) 

I also get £240 per year for 20 years on the solar panels

So now the saving over the first 7 years is £7900 + (240 x 7) + (840 x 7) = ££15460

So we're nearly there right..... Still saving £840 per year and getting £240 for the panels so let's call it 9 years to break even woohoo!!

But now I'm going to throw a huge spanner in the works.... My house is ridiculously efficient. This means that my bills wouldn't be anywhere near average if I was on standard gas/electric. They'd actually be closer to £800 per year. My saving is now down to £440 from the previous £840

So the new saving over the first 7 years is £7900 + (240 x 7) + (440 x 7) = £12660

The savings in year 8 through to 20 is £680 so to get to our magic break even figure of £18k you've got another 8 years making a total of 15 years.

There's myriad assumptions in here of course so the true figure would be probably be different although your guess is as good as mine if it would be better or worse.

What the above quick calc illustrates I think is that you can't look at any one item in isolation. Each eco thing you do has an effect on the payback time of the others. For me the starting point was solar on it's own. Adding a battery increased the payback time. Adding the heat pump reduced the payback time. Making the house more efficient which we obviously all should (must) do increases the payback time.

House insulation is one of the most counter intuitive things when it comes to calculations. You have to have a well insulated house for a heat pump to be effective. If you have a well insulated house your bills without a heat pump would be reduced anyway so your payback on buying solar/battery/heat pump gets much longer. So what do you do?

Lot's of people will tell you that they save this on their panels and that on their batteries but they're in cloud cuckoo land. They live in a dream world and haven't actually calculated out the true cost taking in to account the opportunity cost of everything they've done. One thing they never take in to account is what the £18k up front would've made over the 15 year payback if they invested it at 5% ROI. That makes quite a difference doesn't it. I could've just insulated my house to the same standard, stuck £18k in an investment of some kind and paid my £800 per year bills using the returns.

I think I best stop. I'm a complete geek with all this, I did all the above calculations prior to buying anything 'eco' but still went ahead happy in the knowledge that it wasn't that great a financial move. You can't really put a price on the 'feel good' factor and that's what it came down to for me.

Cliffs: I'm a geek.

Post more.

Great stuff Matt. I love Geeky.

I feel better about my phone post now.

Matt.

Extraordinary stuff.

Solid reasoning, carefully considered, intelligent, efficient, and - take this as a compliment - a dyed in the wool financial life nit.

And yet when you play poker...

EvilPie that is really interesting I may have to PM you as I am going to be building a house soon and have decided to go down the air source heat pump/underfloor heating route and not have gas. Did you get triple glazed windows? We are keen on installing rainwater caputure so we can flush our toilets and wash our clothes with rain water. Don't see the point in using treated water for that type of thing! The tank will sit underground in the garden and can also be used to water the plants. If all new-builds had these tanks then it would somewhat counter-balance the risk of flooding from having paved over a load of farmland/fields.

We'll be using bamboo flooring inside, which is over twice as hard as oak and more sustainable because of how quick it grows.


I have cut down on meat massively and am keenly trying out all the meat alternatives out there. I've been pleasantly surprised at how nice they are. Particular favourites are Linda McCartney sausage rolls and Quorn scotch eggs, both of which are delicious and taste identical to what they're mimicking. Moving towards a plant-based diet really does seem to be beneficial for the body, environment, animals.

I'm penny smart, pound stupid unfortunately.

I'll put a tremendous amount of effort in to cutting bills to save a few quid and yet happily chuck a few hundred at a roulette table.

Go figure.....

I forget to do the former, but always manage the latter ;D

Why do it via PM? Put it on here for everyone to read I say.

I looked in to rainwater harvesting, it was actually one of my main 'wants' and was even written in to my plans. Problem is when you look at how much treated water costs you have a payback in the region of 50+ years.

I was looking at a 5000L system and because I was doing a full refurb it wasn't a major issue to plumb everything to get the most out of the system, toilets + washing same as you.

It was about £3000 for the system but then you had fitting on top as well as adjustments to plumbing internally. Let's call it £4000 total.

According to the website I was looking to purchase from (rainwaterharvesting.co.uk) a roof my size in England would collect 56000L per year.

Let's assume I manage to use every last bit of it. What are the savings?

Well my local water authority Severn Trent charge £1.45 per cubic metre. One cubic metre is 1000 cubic litres so my roof can produce at most 56 cubic metres of water. Let's round it up a bit and call it £84 per year worth of water assuming you use every last drop that lands on your roof.

Do the maths, it just ain't gonna work.

Yes you'll save a fair amount of water but it's so ridiculously cheap you'll never get your money back. Your bills might be £400 per year but the majority of that is for standing charges and waste water disposal rather than clean treated water.

If you're doing it for the 'feel good factor' then 100% go for it but I decided that the money was better spent elsewhere. I'll be honest and tell you that I still kind of regret not installing the system. Even now when we have a good downpour I think how my water tank would've been filling up with all that lovely clean, fresh water.......

Talking about rainwater harvesting has reminded me of one of my 'eco' things....

https://www.ecoegg.com/product/laundry-egg/?gclid=Cj0KCQjw6KrtBRDLARIsAKzvQIFPy7-CGtvzldQzlfUEWQLk6e4vKgicf5t-OOBH2h4TdkQ4_YAXtJsaApmUEALw_wcB

I bought one of these eco eggs a few months ago. Seems weird at first when you do your first load of washing and it doesn't smell of detergent but you soon get used to it. Absolutely fantastic little device and I can honestly say all my washing including dog blankets/towels is as clean as it ever was using washing tablets plus conditioner with all its packaging.

If you have solar plus rainwater harvesting plus an eco egg you can wash all your clothes for pretty much zero environmental impact.

How's that for the 'feel good' factor.

Dog blankets?

Were you not aware that I have a new pup in my life?

Gone and got another Rotty haven't I :)

This one's absolutely soft as grease and I could let anyone meet him. He's a bit of a pain off lead and has intermittent recall but other than that he's perfect.

Any ideas on training recall in a dog that has 5 years of bad habits behind him?

That's great news Matt, pleased for you.

Intermittent recall, you say?

I rarely need much excuse to upload this.



YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GRSbr0EYYU

No. I had no idea that you had another dog. Full details please.

Now then, you know as well as me that first chance is best chance at teaching recall but that ship has sailed so it's all touchy feely now.


When recall doesn't work is it because he is too interested in something else and just doesn't hear you, (Deafing out)
or does he hear you but ignore you because he knows there is nothing you can do about it?

Hey Matt
Cheers for the reply and the detailed explanation of upfront costs and potential payback.
Do you think that your set up will be worth more than you currently estimate for the future?
I'm thinking in terms of how much energy usage is going to cost in the future when the energy companies start charging far more for peak period use.

The major thing I do is overlooked.

I am a Science Teacher and have embedded environmental ethics into our schemes of work from Yr7 upwards. I ran an event in school where students put on self written plays on what the world will be like in 50 years time if we don't change our attitude towards carbon emissions. The students loved it and really rose to the challenge and it was a fantastic evening. We now have an environmental club and grow a lot of our own vegetables for the school kitchen. We have recently 'adopted' two bee hives and regularly have up to 100 children on the beach collecting rubbish and taking pride in our coastal location.

Education has a major role to play and we are attempting to raise a more ethically responsible generation of school leavers.

Lol. Good old Fenton :D

Thankfully Zeus isn't fussed at all by the deer on Wollaton Park. We can walk within a couple of metres of one and he barely flinches.

One actually started moving towards us the other day in a very friendly looking manner but I decided to walk away just in case. Both of them just looked curious but I chose against getting my phone out to video it for the sensible option of disappearing.

Whoa, hold up.

Zeus? ZEUS?

The stags in Wollaton Park are currently at their ruttiest and there's one in particular who is really very aggressive - he actually attacked a lady golfer's golf trolley and tossed her golf bag with it's antlers last week.

Why?

Have you been throwing your rubbish on the beach?

Plastic is one of the greatest inventions. It is light, strong, hygenic, waterproof, air-tight, see-through, damage-resistant and a lot of it is recyclable. For these reasons, it is the best material for food packaging and many other purposes. There is an anti-plastic group-think going on currently which makes no sense. Unless you have been taking your used plastic containers to the beach and throwing them in the sea, why are you trying to cut down on your use of plastic, and giving yourselves a pat on the back for doing so?

I am not sure what your issue is.  It says single use plastic, not all plastic.  I have reused plastic bags for as long as I remember, incliding before the bag for life was a thing.  Reusingis better than recycling, as it saves on energy and ensures 100% of the bag is definitely recycled.  Just putting your vegetables in your trolley and then in your bag is going to be better than putting them in something you don't reuse.  A lot of plastic isn't recyclable, so I try and avoid that if I can.  But even after all that, some of my plastic is going to end up in landfil, and some of that may not stay there.  I think minimising it should surely be an aim?   I am not perfect on this, but it is goid to stop and think before buying something in plastic or any container, and not binning things that can be recycled or reused.

I am not sure why people shouldn't give themselves pats on the back, nobody else is going to bother.

As an aside I think the wooden shed probably beats a plastic one overall, but couldn't really find anything definitive.  Any thoughts?

Welcome back btw.

I love my plastic shed.

I would buy another if I needed one. (unless a dolphin volunteered to creasote and re felt a wooden one every two years)

Thank you.

My issue is that the demonisation of 'single-use' plastics is a red herring. They are the best form of food packaging we have. The issue is with disposal, not their use. Just because some people have disposed of them irresponsibly doesn't mean there is any merit in reducing their use. You throw them in the bin and your Council incinerates them, converting them into energy. What is the problem with that?

PS - Landfill has reduced dramatically in recent years so, from being the main form of disposal, it formed just one-eighth of tonnage last year, and is still in free-fall. The massive growth in incineration means that seven-eighths is now split equally between it and recycling, with incineration still increasing.

Incoming rant; apologies in advance.

As I suggested......... the impact of the educator is again overlooked.

Education is definitely more important than any one person turning vegan or committing to recycling their plastic yet no-one ever talks about it.

Teachers are so under-appreciated in modern society. We are not exactly well payed yet myself and many of my colleagues pour our heart and soul into trying to prepare young people for an ever changing world and for them to have a positive impact upon it. I'm entirely positive the impact me and other educators are having on young people will result in a more environmentally savvy population and have a significant long term positive effect on sustainability.

OK, rant over. As you were.

It's not overlooked. Well no more overlooked than the importance of a myriad of trades and professions. Its a bit like saying fathers are overlooked for their role as a father. its a role we choose and don't accrue any special merit points because of it.

Lol. I was with you for a little while until you decided we can just burn the problem :D

Plastic is incredible. I can't begin to imagine the lives it's saved over the years but it will be countless millions. I don't demonise plastic and I use a lot of it including a lot of single use plastic.

Absolutely the problem is disposal but if we use a little bit less then surely there is less to dispose of (or set fire to).....?

There's an argument that burying plastic is actually better than burning it. If you burn it you create CO2 which isn't ideal. If you bury it you've captured that CO2 pretty much forever. Even if you don't bury it the CO2 is captured within the plastic for hundreds of years as it won't decompose.

We do see a lot of unnecessary plastic package though don't we? Bananas and oranges packed in plastic bags. Why? Just not necessary.

And absolutely you should pat yourself on the back for 'doing your bit'. Just don't get on a high horse thinking you're better than everyone else because you own a cotton bag for life. The energy it takes to produce one of those compared to plastic bags is frightening.