blonde poker forum

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52857334?source=biziday


Derek Chauvin already has a string of complaints against him.

God only knows what he and his team have done that wasn't videoed.


(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2020/05/30/05/28998094-8371633-image-a-166_1590812325717.jpg)

Powerful words from this man:

 https://twitter.com/mentnelson/status/1266562774118907904?s=21 (https://twitter.com/mentnelson/status/1266562774118907904?s=21)

Very engaging man.

I cannot rationalise what the police officer was thinking for 9 minutes.
It couldn't possibly be anything to do with doing his job, & there was no apparent reason to be fearful. Just horrific.

CNN Headquarters under attack in Atlanta.

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ctIvUQo088


Keisha Lance Bottoms, Mayor of Atlanta (takes 30 secs before she starts talking).

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVs8JXqLPs8

I find it rare that I want to say something is an outrage or describe someone's response as shameful (Trump).

Hard to find words strong enough though and after so many previous incidents it's just mind blowing that Police feel like they can act like that with impunity - hopefully that proves untrue.

Impressive response from Killer Mike

Edit: Very powerful leadership from the Mayor too.

I saw the Killer Mike speech about 6am when I was heading to bed, and ended up sat there for about 45 minutes watching other stuff about this, too. Powerful stuff from him and the mayor.

The cop supposedly knew George Floyd from working as a doorman. Don't want to say that's 100%, because it was on Twitter, and I haven't had time to look.

He was good friends with the ex NBA player Stephen Jackson, too.

The Chief of Police in Minneapolis doesn't seem like your typical cop.

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OV9GTx7t1j0

Dunno why he should get praised for firing them so quick , they should have been arrested straight away all 4 of them.

Outrageous that he had 18 previous incidents and was still employed.

Silent protests haven't made a jot of difference and the USA has probably gone backwards in terms of race
relations since the Rodney King incident.

Good luck to all those protesting , maybe if more people had understood Colin Kaepernecks knee and a president
who wasn't a white supremacist , coward , mysoginist and twat , then the USA might have been a better place to live
for a person of colour.

https://twitter.com/stephxghost/status/1267247811017560064?s=20

 :blonde:

You do mean the protestors?

https://www.facebook.com/CartoonClipsII/videos/246001503295154/

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZWErHjXYAI3kb6?format=jpg&name=large)

The racism in the USA is as bad as it's ever been. The sadness i feel when I see that photo of that despicable cop kneeling on the neck of another human being refusing to budge even when medics ask to check him out for vital signs. I hope him and everyone involved get what they deserve and more.

All charged, and Chauvin upgraded to 2nd degree.

Hopefully all get walloped with the max.

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSBZGv5wzK4

Just madness. What did they think this guy was going to do?

Quite specatcular

painted on the road by DC Council leading up to the WH

I'm not believing it.

I was thinking someone has just drawn that on the photo, but it is real

https://twitter.com/MurielBowser/status/1268916115809488896 (https://twitter.com/MurielBowser/status/1268916115809488896)

Wow!

Quite spectacular from the mayor.

The Tangoed one took it well https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1269043981461184514 (https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1269043981461184514)

Never takes anything badly, being a stable genius.

Good morning

Lots to like in this tweet:

 https://twitter.com/down_w_lcc/status/1269449969754206208?s=21 (https://twitter.com/down_w_lcc/status/1269449969754206208?s=21)

i'm not buying the idea that this was a racially motivated incident or that black people have more to fear from the police than any other group -  the statistics simply do not back that claim up

the cop was a somebody who had 18 complaints against him and also someone who knew mr floyd.

this wasnt an indiscriminate incident where all the cop knew was mr floyds race. the officer had worked with floyd-  he knew him.

so we have to ask did he dislike or mistreat floyd because of his skin colour, or because he knew him?

if you knew floyd you;d likely dislike him. he and five other men invaded the home of a pregant lady and he held a gun to her belly as they robbed her.

now on balance i'm guessing information like that is more likely to be behind the mistreatment of floyd than his skin colour.

BLM is a socialist movement.

it is calling for the public ownership of businesses, redistribution of funds and forms of segregation. it's spinning a dangerous narrative that places racial identity above all other concepts and preaches that black people have to fear whites and a system of racisim.

this is palpable bullshit.

west indain immigrants outperform whites in america. you cannot tell by sight if a person is of  west indian heritage or an american born black. yet the structurally racist system somehow discerns the difference and allows the west indian blacks to do etter than their white children. asian americans spank everybody -  to the point where they have to get better grades than whites and blacks to gain entry to universities. is a system structurally racist if minority immigrants do best under it? no it dangerous bullshit, and people should speak up/

i did not kill george floyd. you did not kill geroge floyd. a racist system did not kill him

a bad cop who knew him did.

the policing in america [and over here] is getting progressively worse and people would be right to violently protest against that. but endorsing racial hatred, sliding in communist aims and instilling a victim / oppressor mentality where non exists is wicked.

worth noting that when he died mr floyd had enough fentanyl in his system to kill an average person -  his size and tolerance for that drug meant it was not leathal. he also topped up with meth as well. i'm not even sure that applying a legally alllowed restraint hold counts as full on murder in these circumstances. manslaughter maybe. we will see when it is tested in court. imagine if he is acquitted?

In other news I'm off to show some support at the BLM peaceful protest on The Forest Recreation Ground in Nottingham.

I'll be more than happy to "take a knee" there.

As long as the police are not disguised as squirrels they should be safe from the hound.

Good stuff, take care, it seems increasingly likely to kick off.

There’s lots wrong with this post. Can we see the evidence for the first paragraph?

Seems to be loads of studies say different and that evidence is lacking:
(a number of studies linked in this article)
 https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/latest-research-tells-us-racial-bias-policing/story?id=70994421 (https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/latest-research-tells-us-racial-bias-policing/story?id=70994421)

Teddy has a bite....

that article makes the very common mistake of using per capita comparisons.

they go like this

black people make up x % of the population

but

black people make up y % of death by cop


this should be intuitively obvious why it is statistically illiterate, but in case it isn't consider this:

males make up 50% of the population

but

males make up 90%+ of death by cop

therefore the police hate men

the fact is men commit more crime and have disproportionately more encounters with the police than women. well the same is true of black people. black people commit more crimes and have disproportionately more encounters with the police.

so we have to compare the results of police interactions

per 10k arrests of white people for violent crime 4 white people are killed

per 10k of arrests of black people for violent crime 3 black people are killed.

by almost every metric per police encounter, black people are slightly less likely to be killed by cops than white peole. this holds in the UK also where you are more likely to die from being in police custody if you are white than black. the differences are negligible, but there.

now if you want to say that black people being economically poorer and more likely to be from broken homes is the reason their crime rate is higher i would agree. and you could go onto argue that that is evidence of systemic racism in the US -  you would then havre to explain the success of west indain immigrants -  but you cannot say that the police force [often majority blakc in some cities] is racist and murdering black people.

well you could, but that facts do not supprt you

Can’t let inaccurate statements go unchallenged, especially if they are said with the sort of conviction that might lead to them being mistaken for reality.

The penultimate paragraph is one of the first things that came to mind, a complex issue that I certainly don’t have all the answers to. My problems would be with systemic racism across all societies. I’d be interested to see the data that that so comprehensively dismisses the police brutality angle in your eyes.

oh, i am very sincere.

the protests are fractious and based on dangerous ideology.

the idea that races should fear and be pitted against each other is dangerous

the idea that the group you belong to is more important than the person that you are is dangerous.

telling groups that they are victims, oppressed and in danger when they are not is dangerous.

the protests have cost lives, ruined local economies and for what end?

a protest movement asgainst the police i fully support. but the police are not racist. society is not structurally racist and i welcome a discussion. i've posted enough factual claims to be taken to task if i'm wrong.

i do not deny police brutality. merely that it is racially motivated.

can you give an example of systemic racism?

in the UK black people do worse than white people, economically. as do pakistanis.

but mixed race people do better than white, as do indians. and chinse do best of all

funny how the systemically racist institutions somehow have the best outcomes for immigrant minority groups. and quite how racists -  famed for theur nunance in all things to do with ethniciites -  are able to delineate between indians and pakistanis whilst enusring the latter do much worse than white people but that the former do much better is anybodys guess

It’s always good when you post👍 and it’s great to challenge consensus views, you’ve persuaded me to recheck a few things. This article covers some of the issues that have led to what I think the consensus view is:

 https://news.trust.org/item/20200605102712-km2vc/ (https://news.trust.org/item/20200605102712-km2vc/)

it's the notion of systems rather than individuals being racist that i push back on -  and the notion that white people do best under it is demonstrably false

i also strongly push back on the notion of group identity being more or as important as individual character - that the individual should bear the sins of the group and vice versa

so we have seen this where black people being blamed for the actions of individual protestors, and the notion of white guilt where white people are deemed to be responsible for the actions taken generations ago or by other white people

it's bullshit and needs calling out as such as we are in a very real situation where race war is not inconceivable in two of the least racist and most affluent countries on earth

underlying much of this is a socialist narrative that it is capitalist systems that are suppressing people

note systems are to be dismantled in these narratives and reparations made by the redistribution of-  presumably seized - property and wealth.

there have been many earnest people on twitter trying to claim that racist policing is inherently capitalist. saying that people employed by the state, acting under policies enacted by the state, and working for an agency founded by the state is an example of late stage capitalism is quite the claim. that unionised police forces have more complaints, kill more civillains and have more complaints of racism than non unionised  forces must also be the work of free-market devils.

so, yes, i am very happy to call out this crap for what it is.

All very peaceful at the Nottingham demo. - approximately 3k-strong with no visible police presence near the crowd who were mostly thronged around the stage periodically applauding the various speakers.

I struggle with the idea that we’re on the cusp of a race war, when people of all different races would be on the same sides. It’s another thing that would divide first and foremost down the lines of what people felt was right and wrong.

Cool👍, sounds good.

i do not think we are on the cusp of this. but lets us see how far down the rabbit hole america goes.

when one race is being told they are being oppressed and murdered by another race, and these ideas are being taken seriously i cannot see that leading to a good place -  especially when it based on bullshit theorising and propaganda. and let us see how people in america who do value their white identity above other facets of their life react to the idea of having to give up property and wealth to black people.

people who are peddling this nonsense do so mostly with good intentions, but i do feel it will result in terrible outcomes.

I bumped into Fran(LittleMissC) and young Freddie on the forest and had a nice chat for ten minutes or so.

I must say she's done a good job with her kids, Freddie is a fine looking fellow - he must be ~5/6yo - and daughter Lily is now eighteen and in her final year at the Nottingham High School where she won a scholarship.

It isn't all bullshit though

Stop and search stats

https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/crime-justice-and-the-law/policing/stop-and-search/latest#:~:text=there%20were%20375%2C588%20stop%20and%20searches%20in%20England%20and%20Wales,for%20every%201%2C000%20Black%20people. (https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/crime-justice-and-the-law/policing/stop-and-search/latest#:~:text=there%20were%20375%2C588%20stop%20and%20searches%20in%20England%20and%20Wales,for%20every%201%2C000%20Black%20people.)

The multiplier is coming down for black people (you can see it in the historic figures), but this isn't great for black people, even if some of it can be explained by black people been more likley to commit crimes.  And if you have ten times the interactions, then it doesn't matter so much that if you have the same lethal outcomes as white peopleper interactions?

Then you get job applications.  The situation has improved a lot from when I started out where black youg adults just didn't get replies, but still it isn't that great if you have a foreign name.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46927417 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46927417)

Immigrants do better than natives in a lot of cases.  A lot of it is down to self selection; you have to be motivated to get on your bike vs sitting on the couch moaning about your lot.  Your average immigrant who is a person of colour is a lot more likely to be well educated than a person of colour off the US projects.  So it shouldn't be a surprise if immigrants and their children perform better in education and careers.  They still experience racism, but if you have a better start in life that helps counterbalance that.

Then you get to George Floyd.  Does it matter if he had drugs in his system?  The police should react to what they see and hear.   There seemed zero need to hold him like that for 9 minutes whatever hsi colour, and if he did seem to be intoxicated then there seemed to be even more need to take some better care and pay more attention to his vital signs.

I do think things are clearly getting better, but dismissing these complaints as bullshit doesn't seem to be an accurate reflection of reality.

FWIW Third degree murder is about the same as our manslaughter, which was the original charge.  Kneee man has been upgraded to second degree murder which is something less than we'd see as murder here on my understanding.

how much is explained by class?

stop and search woill be proportionally higher in high crime areas. guess who is more likely to live in those areas?


exactly this. the disparities are down to culture, not an oppressive system. how else to explain the huge disparity between pakistani and indian outcomes?

with regard to jobs there is explicit room to discriminate in favour of minorities in many cases. over in amerca asian americans have to achieve higher scores than black and white kids to gain entry into universities.

we are not going to see a fair society when we have narratives that hold group identities above individual values.


no it does not matter to how he was treated. police absolutely should treat people with dignity and care. and the way mr floyd was treated was despicable.

but what did the officer see and hear? he was told a man was refusing to hand back goods to a store owner and was acting in a drunken and volitile manner. when he got there he saw someone who he actually knew: a 6'6" criminal who had committed the most callous of violent robberies.

the officer treated mr floyd like he was subhuman. but i don't think he did that due to race.

the officer was absolutely vile and operates in a corrupt system that routinely abuses people and protects its own. i said i would back violent protests against policing.

but it's not racist.

races do not have to fear each other.

one race is not supressing another.

If you clicked on the link, you would see the stats are broken down by area.  In every area, whether rich or poor, you have a much higher likelihood of been stopped and searched if you are black. 

Some of it is down to poverty, which also explains part of the indian, pakistani discrepency you note.   https://www.business-standard.com/article/current-affairs/why-indian-immigrants-in-uk-are-more-favoured-than-pakistanis-bangladeshis-118050700168_1.html (https://www.business-standard.com/article/current-affairs/why-indian-immigrants-in-uk-are-more-favoured-than-pakistanis-bangladeshis-118050700168_1.html)

A lot of these things are due to background; if you came over here to work in a mill, or as a slave, then your descendents have are much less likely to do well than if you came here to work as a doctor or to further your education (as a lot of Chinese do).

It isn't all down to racism, but some of it is. 

i do take those points on board.

it's worth noting that when broken down by area, these areas are pretty large. greater manchester is not a homogenous area. there will be huge disparities between areas and even estates. i would be very interested in a breakdown of areas adjusted for crime rates and poverty. saying all of metropolitan london isn't that, imo.

but what structures and laws prevent a black person from doing well?

whatever structures and laws do so do not prevent asian, mixed race and indain kids from doing well.

i would argue that welfare has harmed many communities and that we can argue for changes within the system.

but when the narrative being pushed is that the system is inherently racist, keeps people down and benefits white people to the exclusion of all others, i'm sorry that is palpably wrong. pushing that identity matters more than the individual is wrong.

and much of the protest is anti-capitalism dressed up in critical race theory.

its a dangerous road.

at the moment there is a coalition of ex service men and football casuals surrounding the churchill monument to stop it being vandalised whilst protesters chant to tear it down - a statue in bristol ended up in the drink this morning. in plymouth there are white lads standing in front of war memorials. there is a prominent tommy robinson supporter on twitter putting out a call to arms for white lads from brum to get down there to help.

don't tell me that racial fighting is not being bated or is inconceivable

memorials but up for men who died fighting nazis are being desecrated by people who claim to be anti facist yet would argue the soldiers were enablers of a white colonial oppressive system.

this needs to be called out as nonsense, it is going to end very badly if moderates do nothing.

Hope all these morons gathering like they are to ‘protest’ are being fined

The Bristol statue was of Colston and its future has been controversial for some time.  Put it this way, I had a pretty good idea which statue it was when I heard a statue had come down in Bristol; I wouldn't have stopped at half a million on who wants to be a millionaire with my guess anyway.  It has nothing to do with war memorials which haven't been pulled down anywhere AFAIK.

The black lives matter isn't nonsense to the people on the ralllies.  Not sure how dusmissing it as nonsense is going to be better for race relations than listening to their grievances.  I wouldn't go because of Covid, but think there have been plenty of reasons to protest this issur over the years.  I'd be very much against pulling down war memorials if that isn't clear.

(https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/02/e6/e7/c9/on-isla-mujeres.jpg)

yes i am aware of the statue in brizzle

the narrative that whites and black people are in an oppressor / oppressed dynamic within a system that needs to overthrown is a nonsense. and i will continue to argue against it.

that the goals of the BLM movement are highly political outside of race - demanding various forms of socialism is something else i will continue to push back on.

and the idea that group identity sits above individual worth is something i have fought right back to my militant socialist youth, and i will continue to do so.

i agree with many of their grievances, but a lot are based on a nonsense theory of identity not facts and i will most definitely be questioning it wherever i encounter it. it's a dangerous ideology.

There is a great deal of inequality in the UK but have to agree that it isn't down to racism.

South asians, in general terms, show that being from a different part of the world or being brown isn't as big an issue as culture.

If you look at the relative success /progress in economic terms of British Indians, Pakistanis, and Bangladeshis it's pretty obvious that race / colour isn't the issue

Good morning

There’s so much wrong with this. The stand out is probably the assertion that people can’t be more racist toward some minority groups than others.

People seem to tolerate racism against Gypsies pretty well.

When did you last see a protest, or even a piece in a newspaper about that?

Perhaps I'm imagining it.

There is racism in the UK.

There is less racism in the UK than the US, and probably less than most of the EU countries.

That is something to mark as some kind of achievement - but it doesn't make the racism that still exists here any better.

Just because we've done well at tackling racism, particularly in the latter part of the 20th century, doesn't mean that there isn't still more left to do.

It seems to be the last bastion of racism that goes almost completely unchecked, even sadly amongst the relatively ‘woke’. Racism is only ignorance and we’ve been so lucky to have your contributions on this subject to the forum over the years, other people aren’t as fortunate, this doesn’t excuse their ignorance. The Stop Funding Hate guys seem to do good work on it imo but like so many things, we’re all at the mercy of the profile the media give an issue and how seriously a government will take it. Having a racist PM doesn’t help anyone, let’s hope we can bring about improvement regarding all forms of racism. I think and hope racism will be a big issue at the ballot box for decades.

When I say ‘almost completely unchallenged’, it gets challenged and called out by individuals but in my experience never seems to become less prevalent. I’d welcome any thoughts on what we can do, especially any way that people can help. I’m exploring what can be done via our trade unions on these issues, I’d be happy to share anything that might help.

People in my village who know that I'm a Gypsy say anti Gypsy things to me all the time without the slightest notion that It might give offence.

Our post office was robbed a couple of months ago, the police told the owner "It was probably Gypsies"
The owner proceeded to tell everyone else, including me, that it was Gypsies.

Earlier this year Channel 4 aired a programme called The Truth About Travellers and Crime. (Try getting away with that with using any other minority). A "friend" from the village, (a nice bloke actually) said, "Hey Tom, there was a programme on TV about your lot last night".

Anyway, sorry for the derail. I blame car park Glen.

Where do I assert that.. Sometimes Yr a complete fkn idiot

My nickname at school was paki so I know what I'm talking about on all matters of race.

I don't really blame you Glenda.

I know you know, and I know you know I know.

We all are sometimes, aren’t we? It looks to me it’s the premise of the whole post, so perhaps I’ve misunderstood, I’ll look again. I did spend a while trying to work out what you were trying to say though, so maybe some more explanation would be good.

Upper case P for Paki please.

Haha, so sorry

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OflGwyWcft8

You may have seen this before but it’s truly shocking and no action was taken against the police officer. Beggars belief.

I saw that ages ago, and haven't rewatched it, because I remember it was bloody awful.  The officer stood trial and was found not guilty, so some action was taken.  From what I saw the verdict is unlikely to be one I'd come to, but I haven't seen all the evidence.

Another shocking thing is that he was reinstated briefly.  Surely you can still sack someone even if a jury has some reason for thinking there was reasonable doubt?  Making somebody perform tricks and then shooting them seems sufficient grounds for finding gross misconduct even if a jury decided it wasn't murder.

Obviously can't see the final moments, but it nothing in the footage to make the police think they are under threat.
Background here.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Daniel_Shaver

Made me think of this line in a piece on the BBC website.
'The real life fear of stopping a suspect who may be armed, in a country awash with guns can lead to bad decisions'.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p08g4kqw/focus-usas-history-with-police-brutality

Looks like he got rehired so that they he could apply for medical retirement, and be eligible for a pension.

Madness.

I'm quite sure the intent wasn't to kill him, but that can obviously be disputed given what transpired. Nothing in the prior 40 minutes gave any indication of them being anything other than professional.

Went sideways so quickly, and I'm guessing he shouldn't have shot him 3x if he has been sacked already.

Not just a drunk being stupid, though. Drunk driver who has been fighting with police officers, and tried to shoot one of them with his own taser.

Thought this thread better placed, to save de-railing Mint's superb thread.

I understand that it went sideways quickly, but these are, (or should be) highly trained professionals who don't lose their head in a crisis and only use deadly force when there is absolutely no other alternative.


By your logic the police could be justified in shooting all the rioters who fight with the police and hurl lumps of concrete.

Agree 100% with the bolded. Absolutely no way someone in that state should have been able to overpower two of them.

I just don't think it's as simple as oh he's drunk just let him go.

I'm often wrong,  though. I think more onus is on the person not to be a fucking idiot.

No, not more onus. The onus should be on the people who are trained and paid to do the job.

There are thousands of idiots but the penalty for being an idiot shouldn't be death.

If, (and it's a big if) If the only choice was to let him run away with a taser or kill him it's an absolute no brainier to let him run away.

What if it have been a drunken Donald Trump Jr? Do you think they would have shot him?

Just friendly debating BTW Marky x

Of course, I know that :)

I'll agree they should be better trained, and that's definitely a big problem it would seem.

It shouldn't be death, I agree. I would expect to get shot if I had done what he had, though. That's why I never ever fought back whenever I got nicked, even when it was a mistake on their part doing so. I know our police didn't have guns then, so it's different, but regardless.

Again down to training, I don't know what he's supposed to do. I'm guessing he should have let him run away, seeing as he has been fired. So I'm wrong, in that case.

Donald Trump to some random is apples and oranges, but I doubt he would have been able to wrestle his way out of his seatbelt, nevermind two similar sized adults. He'd have likely had a gun, too.

I think they'd have shot whomever it was, if they had carried out exactly the same sequence of events.

One shot him, after he'd been fighting them both, and aimed a taser at one of them.

He was drunk, they did try apprehending him in a very placid and mellow manner. He started fighting them.

I don't think killing him was the intention.

If their guidelines say let a suspect flee if he overpowers you and takes your weaon, I guess that's why he has been sacked.

Better training required, and a manslaughter charge for the officer that shot him.

One shot him three times in the back while he was running away.

How are the police officers in danger or fearful for their safety ?

Probably pissed off because he fought both of them off and stole their taser for which they would
no doubt be reprimanded for if he got away.

I just can’t see any justification for firing 3 bullets into the back of an unarmed drunk man running away
with a taser he had managed to wrestle from one of the police officers.

I simply don't understand why the policemen didn't just shoot the fugitive in the legs if they had to shoot him at all.

Completely concur with Red's point re. Donald Trump jr.

https://twitter.com/IlhanMN/status/1272033386190843905?s=20

Did he hit him three times? I haven't looked, so don't know.

I'd be quite fearful of my safety, if someone pointed a taser at me, and I'd just been overpowered by said person.

I'm normally on the side of the civilians, so this isn't usually the corner I find myself in. He isn't unarmed, he has a taser.

I'm not going to try thinking for someone else  'probably because he', so the policeman will have to explain his reasoning.

You can pull videos up of all sorts, and do it all day.

Not sure what the relevance is, as that is a different cop (who obviously shouldn't be one), and a different situation.

Easy for us to wonder, while I'm sifting through mortgage documents, and you're hacking around the back 9, lol.

I'm not sure what his point was about Donald Trump jr.

After two police officers had been on the scene for 27 minutes, much of that time talking with Mr. Brooks, one of the officers, Garrett Rolfe, attempted to handcuff him, leading to a struggle. The officers tried to stun Mr. Brooks with Tasers, and Mr. Brooks grabbed one of their Tasers and ran away, with Officer Rolfe in pursuit. Mr. Brooks turned at one point to fire the Taser back in Officer Rolfe’s direction; Officer Rolfe then pulled out his handgun and fired at Mr. Brooks three times as he was running away.

The Fulton County medical examiner’s office confirmed on Sunday that Mr. Brooks’s death was a homicide and that the cause of death was “gunshot wounds of the back.” The office’s statement said he had been hit by two shots in the back, causing “organ injuries and blood loss.”

New York Times

The level of force is just so disproportional to the crime involved.

If their the nice guys hate to think what the nasty buggers would do .

One of them had been there for nearly 45 mins, which you can see from the full video.

We saw the rolling around and wrestling part, then him slip off and turn to fire.

So he hit him twice, and I presume he'll be charged with manslaughter.

All ifs/buts/maybes etc. I think going on the way he was treated throughout, they'd have shot whoever it was had the same happened.

Think the biggest factor is that police need better training and vetting.

Sad situation all around.

Oh, I don't disagree on that being a factor overall.

I was talking about this incident in isolation.

That would be fair comment if this was an isolated incident.

This example in Minnesota from a couple of years ago is one of the worst. The driver tells the cop that he has a gun, he reaches for his licence and the cop loses control - his lack of training is so clear. The driver died. Though entitled to be distraught, his girlfriend is still trying to keep the cop calm and calling him sir. Then, having just watched her boyfriend being murdered, and not doing anything except sit in her seat, she is arrested! The policeman was prosecuted and found not guilty of all charges.

Don't watch the second clip if you're squeamish. It's from inside the car and is graphic. The driver is still alive at that stage.

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pXWe4xFO04

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gYvRmxKKxk

It's fair comment anyway.

I don't think that racism came into play in anyway, in this incident.

Remember seeing that one at the time :(

As you say, compounded with race issues, the number of police who are obviously severely undertrained, and unsuitable, is staggering.

I'd like to sit on the fence.  If you are black, I think you are more likely to be killed, but you can't say for certain it happened here. 

I don't want to watch the video again, but is the shooter the bloke who shot him the same bloke who lost his taser?  If he'd normally reach for his taser, and been trained to reach for his taser, I can see why he'd reach for his gun in a high pressure situation.  I don't think any amount of training stops people doing stupid things when under presssure.  I don't think tasers are as safe as we are told and I wouldn't want one pointed at me anyway.  If you had a taser, you'd likely use that to defend yourself?

Anyway, there are a lot of videos where the guilt/racism is clearer. I don't think he should have been shot, but can understand it.  It may have been related to racism, oy may not have been.

It's difficult to claim self-defence if you shoot someone in the back.

Twice.

The officer had his taser in his right hand . He switched it to his left hand so he could
reach for his gun with his right hand .

I know he has been hit in the back, but also know he has waived a weapon that can kill the cop.  I'd say it looks likely he does claim self defence, so not sure why you think it is difficult for him to claim it.  I don't know all the US self defence laws, but even under ours, you could argue he used reasonable force (you can't shoot someone for stealing your stuff, but can if you feel your life is in danger). The jury would have to find him guilty beyond reasonable doubt, so that doesn't seem a certainty.  

I refer you to the lump of concrete post that I made some hours ago.

Ah, ok that changes things, but Atlanta has stand your ground laws.  That means it is easier to claim self defence there than here?   I am not defending stand your ground laws, they seem ridiculous, but that is their law.

https://statelaws.findlaw.com/georgia-law/georgia-self-defense-laws.html (https://statelaws.findlaw.com/georgia-law/georgia-self-defense-laws.html)

My original question was, "Did they need to kill him?" not "Could they get away with killing him?"

Think that summarises things pretty much how I view them, too.

I looked at a shorter video that showed the struggle before he runs off, and it looks like he got the taser of the first officer, and it sounds like he fires it at the cop who shot him.

Do they have one shot?

The officer who had shot him had fired the taser prior to the chase, and had it in his hand chasing him.

Glad I don't have to make decisions like that. I struggle to pick out what I want for dinner most days.

So I should seek out whatever comments you made anywhere else before replying to my thoughts on the difficulties of claiming self defense?  

I don't think they should have killed him, I said so in the post you replied to.  So it seems I inadverently answered the question I never saw.

It seems I might have rubbed you up the wrong way. Not my intention at all.

I'm aware that I can be a but abrupt sometimes.

It seems we both rubbed each other up the wrong way and we can both be abrupt at times.  I had my first job interview in an age earlier this afternoon, so was probably a bit too stressed.

Just seen the Marcus Rashford news, It has cheered me up a lot. 

I blame it all on Marky .

As Tikay would say , he’s a wrong un .

Guilty as charged  ;surrender;

Having watched it a couple more times, and thought about it most of last night.

I think he should have tried catching him on foot, or just let him Forrest Gump it out of there as you said.

Think what I said yesterday afternoon is definitely something that should be looked at, for all police forces.

Compulsory BJJ training, so they aren't going to struggle like that with random drunks.

https://twitter.com/iam_johnw/status/1273205447462400011?s=20

Words fail me.

Karen and Karen II retweeting it for her.

Thought it was a skit at first.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHK7xsox9Dc

DA in the Rayshard Brooks shooting live now in court.

Yeah, she's unstable, but I assume there is concern because of this:  https://www.foxnews.com/us/national-guard-soldiers-found-glass-in-pizza

Ah, that definitely gives it some context.

Lots came out in that press conference with the DA.

Didn't provide any medical assistance for 2 minutes after the shooting.

Said they have him on camera kicking him after shooting him, the other police officer stood on him after the shooting.

Brosnan has turned states evidence, and been charged with 3 aggravated assault type charges.

Rolfe 11 charges in total, with felony murder being the main one.

One of the bullets hit a car that was parked in the drive-thru, resulting in some of the charges.

Supposedly said 'got him' after the shooting, too.

Can't remember how many had filmed it, bu looks like they have an abundance of video evidence, other than just bodycams and Wendy's CCTV.

It’s disappointing to see British BLM organisation starting to alienate people.

Pundits on Sky refusing to wear the BLM badge after anti capitalist, anti police, anti Israel tweets they have put out.

They would do well to concentrate on their core message than muddy the waters with some of this far left politics nonsense.

They have been going since 2013, and I don't think their core message has changed much.  I don't see how they get equality without some politics that may be considered left wing.  You can believe in spreading the wealth a bit more wildly without been anti-capitalist.

I don't think defund the police is anti-police, it is about spending some of the money that goes on prisons etc. on things that benefit those at the bottom.   This is particularly relevant in the US where the prison population is huge and blacks are over-represented and BLM is mainly a US bases based organisation after all.  You can say this without been anti the principle of having a police force.

I think there is an issue with how Israel is criticised and how anti-Zionism is used.  Zionism itself isn't the real issue, and I cringe at the use of the word Zionists in a lot of contexts.  If you are an anti-racism organisation you should be a bit more careful with your language.

Israel treats a large chunk of their population terribly and is planning on extending its territory.  Both these things are in breach of International law.  Both seem legitimate grounds for criticism from an organisation that believes that black lives matter; but the way the UK arm is doing it seems pretty clumsy at best.

It is possible to believe in equality, improving the position of minorities and not be aggressively left wing.

We are moving back to the moral high ground nonsense which so many on the left bang on about.

The concept of treating everyone with respect should cross all political parties and the campaign should reflect that.

I can support the rights of minorities but I can’t support the BLM movement/organisation when they want to take this path. Neither can big chunks of decent, honest people that will support the concept but not an overtly far left organisation.

The left should focus on about 3 things that change society fundamentally

a) fight for Universal basic income to be adopted
b) provision of decent social care
c) provide a decent bank of state funded housing for the people who want to live on UBI alone

Reasonable to expect a country like this to recognise that acceptable housing, an income that provides sufficient food and clothing, and care in your dotage to be something we want everyone to have, even the laziest do-nothing can have this as far as I'm concerned

Cut all the woke, crybaby, special interest this, special interest that, workers rights, anti wealth, anti public school crap - someone has to pay for the people who don't want to do much.

Those who aspire to more can still go and do their thing and those that aspire to nothing but family, food, being alive etc can do nothing but that without being seen as a drain on society.

Cracked it

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/01/exclusive-bbc-bans-black-lives-matters-badges-air/

Even the BBC have issues with it.

This is pretty graphic, but you wouldn't want to be in her shoes (it stops before the fatal shot).

https://www.facebook.com/EatonCountySheriff/videos/268013927833598/ (https://www.facebook.com/EatonCountySheriff/videos/268013927833598/)

The fella had already stabbed one person, before getting out of his car and approaching the officer when pulled over.

Like one of those Zombies in Max Payne.