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https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/56795811

Interesting to see if this actually happens. Seems most ex-players and fans are against it.

Dont really care if it happens or not. I dont think id watch it and if it meant exclusion from any current comps would definitely take my important fandom somewhere else. You Horns! maybe

Yah boot them out.

The game might miss United and Liverpool, but the other four?

Oh well, I guess we have to have the likes off Leeds, Everton, villa, Newcastle being the next biggest clubs.

Deary me.

Boot them out, the game will be fine.

Leicester are 25/1 on bf for this year's league title when on paper they can't win.  Assume these discussions must be able to affect this year's league?  People aren't asking to bet Leicester at 25/1 for real money for nothing right?

Never going to happen is it?

Jose won't be taking Spurs there either way.

I'm with Ollie.

fergal @fergalkiernan
1h
Ian Holloway has just said this Super league business is a betrayal to the memory of Prince Philip. I’m not even fucking joking.

£2.3m done on Man City for the league at 1.01.   Currently sitting at 1.06.  Lot of 1% 'bf loan sharks' sweating slightly this morning for their 'risk free' 1%.

This is like when Biden was sitting at 1.15 for the US election after he'd already won.

I used to go and see Man City a bit when I lived there in the old 2nd and 3rd division equivalent.  Even when they have had all this money, I have thought to myself well at least they are nothing like United.  Turns out that I was wrong.

Such bad timing when Arsenal are pretty much the definition of a mid table side.  

My immediate reaction on hearing that they were going to carry on playing in the premier league was no you f'in won't.  Zero chance I'd pay to watch this; I am much more likely to cancel what I have than spend any more on football.  Sky Sports, BT sports and Amazon Prime is already too much when I don't even watch that much sport anymore.  I'd be pretty chuffed if they leave and I get to watch a cheaper Premier League and a few more championship/lower league matches.  

  

https://twitter.com/FootballFunnnys/status/1384082557130526724

Barbeque sauce is a less dodgy sauce, Tikay.

Would love it to be true though.  Wonder what his bonus was for winning a trophy?

I don't think it's going to happen (in the short term at least) but if it does, what's the betting opportunities?
Germany for the Euros/World Cup for a start. If FIFA/UEFA ban players playing international matches then the Germans are in a great spot.
West Ham to win the Champions League?
Any others?

I wont even miss Arsenal if theyre booted out, let alone non fans

I really hope this happens and the sooner the better imo. Then we can get back to having a proper Top league with a lot of teams able to compete for the title. More money trickling down the pyramid too.Let the millionaires get their dough playing each other and the real footy fans will get their competition back.  The most surprising thing about the thing is Spurs got an invite.

4/1 the field every year.   Basically the betting without the big 6 market.   Will get 1/4 1,2,3 ew as well like the old days!

Deffo, Leicester City and Everton maybe Villa, Leeds etc would become the big clubs with most of the Division able to mount a decent challenge. If they can’t ban em from the Premier League just give them 25-30 point deductions or schedule a load of their league matches on the same nights they are playing in the Super Duper league. Then give me points deductions for fielding weak teams.

Maybe even invite Celtic and Rangers, Hearts and Hibs into the Prem to replace the teams and get two more major Cities involved in the Premier League.  It would be Miles more interesting in that set up imo than Man City are 1/4 to win away at team B simply because Man City have the most  money to spend in players.

I did like this tho, Spurs are going to find out pretty quickly what it feels like to be Sheff Utd in this new league.

That would be pretty astonishing. Not sure where the crowds are coming from for any new league. Without playing in domestic leagues cant believe many fans will be interested

Betting appears to have been suspended on the current Champions League.

It sounds like this new league is already a done-deal if the threats from UEFA are quite so draconian and immediate.

The globalization of football is here - those hippie-types protesting against globalization were right!

 ;boltpp;

haha going to decide how to award the CL to the only club left in! 

So are we for or against competitions that are won on merit?  Feels a bit like Brexit; you thought you knew who the baddies were, only for the goodies to start acting like baddies too.  

Fitting if they handed the Champions League to the biggest arseholes who are not currently members of the League of Arseholes.  Presumably the win would mean they qualify for the League of Arseholes?  Hard to keep up.

Carra and Neville tearing up trees.

Calling for player strikes, calling out sky for instigating the prem breakaway and pay-walling football after sky's well crafted PR puff piece was read out, saying they will not talk about football until the project ends and will never analyse a ESL game

Disgusted with the City owners about this as are almost City fans on teddy's favourite City forum. Surprised as well - just didn't expect them to join-in with the same group who have worked against us for so long..

Immediate expulsion from the Champions League/Euro League is of course appropriate. Very disappointed about that and particularly being denied seeing a young Foden (has the highest ceiling of any footballer I've seen at City) on the biggest stage.

I have a ticket for the LC final on Sunday but binning that now. It just seems irrelevant. And I won't have to go through the OTT COVID protocols :)

For the first time ever I feel like sacking off football completely at a time I was so looking forward to getting back to live football. We'll see. No doubt I'll change my mind because it is so ingrained in what I've done for the last 50 years.

Excuse my French but fuck Manchester United.

I'd be terrified as a united or liverpool fan.

Could very well see a huge % of their home games being played in Delhi v the inter Milan tigers or in some Superdome v the Barca eagles.

And which will be the true fan base, which the true club.

Triggers brush innit

I caught some of this and they didn’t hold back did they. Love or loathe Neville he is certainly passionate about football. The problem is Sky were responsible for creating a breakaway league themselves which changed football for the worse. It created more money, more TV exposure and less competition with a bigger worldwide audience but it also took all the big clubs out of the football league and devalued that. The ESL is basically the next step and Sky are now on the shitty end instead this time.

There was more than a hint of protectionism in  the coverage I saw.

I don't agree it changed football for the worse

The top flight is vastly better than what went before and there's a strong case to be made that the championship is now a huge improvement, it's one of the best supported leagues in the world.

I don't think it took the big cubs out of the football league either, there's 2 european cups and a premier League trophy bobbing along mid table in the championship

Finally,the money coming into football is more a function of markets being global.

Remember early 90s when England played in somewhere like Poland?  the footage could have been from the moon landing  - and the TV I watched it on was magnitudes behind the screen on the phone in my pocket.

The ability to sell hd content to a global audience is where the money comes from.

If it were not the prem league it would have been la Liga or serie a who sat on top of that market. But those markets where going to open up regardless. And the money would have flowed in.

But yes I agree sky are bricking it and covering themselves. Their statement had a very telling line : we have not been involved in these discussions - would the two last night have even gotten on air had they been involved?

Let’s not make this tribal. It’s way too important for that. Don’t that you’ll find any United, LFC, Spurs, Arsenal** or Chelsea fans in favour of this greed-driven abomination.

I feel great sympathy for the players and coaching staff of both my team and yours. They have had this situation foisted upon them. Your title, our valiant second place (with much reduced gap), the European runs could all just be taken away from them.

Excuse my French, but Fuck Woodward, Glaer, Henry, Kroenke, Sheikh Mansour, Abramovich, Levy and all the fucking bankers and chancers that are involved.



**Some Arsenal fans may appreciate the chance of European involvement given their current plight.

This sums it up.   One way or another (ESL has just sped this process up) Skysports won't exist in 10 years time.   Their sole selling point is EPL football.   They have sacked off quietly so many sports in sole pursuit of the ever increasing EPL price tag.   Once the real shit hits the fan when Amazon and similar types properly get involved and bid with fortunes Sky can't possibly compete with their business model will be uneconomical.   They bullied football 30 years ago with much bigger cash than it had ever seen before now the ball is on the other foot.  I haven't paid for Sky sports for several years now because i can easily watch the majority of the stuff (outside of EPL football) on bookmakers streams for free or elsewhere online.   I thought i would miss watching live football but tbh i really haven't to the level it costs to purchase it on tv.   I think there will be many more 'marginal' football fans discover this indirectly because of the ESL.  

The owners are making a big gamble on their product being very inelastic price wise and they can continue to squeeze fans harder and harder.   They may be right and not care with COVID showing the owners what i have told football fans who are season ticket holders for years.  EPL clubs can easily run financially with zero fans in grounds.  All the money now is in global TV deals not even the domestic sky deal.  Put 6 powerful US sports owning owners into this greedy pot and this was always going to happen and be their bigger picture.  It also means that games under this model can be held anywhere in the world at any time zone to suit the real customer which is global TV and not the fans who actually attend.  4 games Saturday/Sunday all spaced out because of COVID has appealed masssively to different time zones esp the USA.   I doubt we will see a return to mass 3pm Saturday kick offs in the immediate post COVID future and the weekends 'worst' game will be the 3pm kick off as legally its the only game that can't be shown live on tv in the UK under current rules.

J Pennant on Jeremy Vine on C5 discussing the ESL.   What a choice of pundit to discuss a football business issue!

Don't disagree with too much of that, but worth noting that Sky TV - as we know them - now have seriously deep pockets, as they are owned by Comcast. For context as to size., Sky have 30,000 employees, Comcast have 190,000 employees. So while nobody can really compete with Bezos & Co, Sky/Comcast  are anything but small fry & still have plenty of muscle. 

BREAKING: Arsenal have decided to not participate in the European Super League. They are starting their own breakaway league with just themselves. The bookies currently have them as second favourites to win it.

I'm not making it tribal and I agree with everything you say.

But fuck United. Whenever the shit goes down there they are at the front of the queue.
Everyone is culpable but this doesn't happen without United getting into bed with Perez and Agnelli.

I hear you, and yeah, the Glazers obviously see this as a way to increase the return on their investment. Although investment isn’t really the right word for what they did. I see the motivation for Fenway too, and for Kroenke and Lewis. But why are City  involved? Sheikh Mansour doesn’t need the money.

It’s all just too depressing to argue with people who have the same overall view of it as I do.

I think the biggest driver for all the yank owners is they don't 'get' the idea their clubs aren't certain to be in the champions league.   You don't 'miss out' in the nba or NFL like Man U and Arsenal have in recent years whilst the owners still pay huge wage bills.   US sports owners also find the English football culture of clubs not turning huge profits annually without fail irrespective of results alien to their mindset.   Every NFL team makes an absolute fortune every team without fail.   You are in every year no matter how bad you were the season before.  I think they are trying to control that side of the game as much as the cash.   There is definitely a sports culture clash between the two styles of sports ownership.

surely the whole thing is just to get leverage over UEFA and more money from the Champions League and it isn't actually going to happen right?

The curious thing so far (as far as I can see) is there's been no mention of who will get the TV Rights in Europe. Sky must already know it's not them, otherwise they would not be so openly hysterical about it.

Football and the whole experience of attending a game (other than the price of course) may be a lot better since Sky /premier league and then the substantial shift into global ownership.

This move does feel like a pretty natural extension of that. Its not something I'm likely to watch, let alone pay to watch but does feel ridiculous to see so many people bleating about greed when they are the same people who have participated in making the game beyond the reach of lower paid, family people over the last 20 years.

I reckon it might not happen this year but football hasn't reached peak farce yet, I think there's an inevitability about it.

Make you right on all of this

Chelsea have pulled out apparently. That'll be that then.

Why is Boris threatening to get involved?

I don't remember any high-level posturing when the "breakaway" premier league was mooted.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56823501

City out as well. Announced broadly the same time so a co-ordinated effort.

Are they suddenly realising that their CL aspirations for this Season were toast?

Kroenke hasn't uttered a dicky-bird about it yet.

It's the mushroom approach - keep 'em in the dark with plenty of manure*.


*Not you pops

its the us owners forcing this.  Ruskie and the Arabs were probably just swept along for the ride without thinking the yanks plans and motives through.   

Barcelona & Atletico Madrid rumoured to be exiting too.

man city back to 1.01 for the league.  Leicester can still be laid at 250/1 having been 25/1 yesterday.

Arsenal out as well?

Not sure if true, but....



(https://i.imgur.com/IBjh7cP.jpg)

Too right, ridiculous posturing - truly magnificent to see all the parties working together on such an important issue

Probably a good move get him back to 'head of marketing' where he belongs. 

Woodward's resignation confirmed.

I'd love to be a fly on the wall when the original decision making takes place in these boardrooms.

"Yep, let's do this thing, everyone will love it...gravy."

Can't be that unaware, shirley ?

Genuinely one of the most entertaining 48 hours in football that.

Hope we get to do it again soon.


Florentino Perez to El Chiringuito: "Here at Real Madrid we've lost a lot of money, we are all going through a very bad situation. When there is no profit, the only way is to play more competitive games during the week. The #SuperLeague will save the clubs financially".

Yeah, might need to maybe sell more pies at half time or summat.

Tottenham’s statement:

We can confirm that we have formally commenced procedures to withdraw from the group developing proposals for a European Super League (ESL).

Chairman Daniel Levy said: “We regret the anxiety and upset caused by the ESL proposal. We felt it was important that our club participated in the development of a possible new structure that sought to better ensure financial fair play and financial sustainability whilst delivering significantly increased support for the wider football pyramid.

“We believe that we should never stand still and that the sport should constantly review competitions and governance to ensure the game we all love continues to evolve and excite fans around the world.

“We should like to thank all those supporters who presented their considered opinions.”

Arsenal are out, too.


As a result of listening to you and the wider football community over recent days we are withdrawing from the proposed Super League.

We made a mistake, and we apologise for it.



https://twitter.com/Arsenal/status/1384626900056805379

Here’s Manchester United’s statement:

Manchester United will not be participating in the European Super League.

We have listened carefully to the reaction from our fans, the UK government and other key stakeholders.

We remain committed to working with others across the football community to come up with sustainable solutions to the long-term challenges facing the game.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56823501

More from Arsenal;


The last few days have shown us yet again the depth of feeling our supporters around the world have for this great club and the game we love.

We needed no reminding of this but the response from supporters in recent days has given us time for further reflection and deep thought.

It was never our intention to cause such distress, however when the invitation to join the Super League came, while knowing there were no guarantees, we did not want to be left behind to ensure we protected Arsenal and its future.

As a result of listening to you and the wider football community over recent days we are withdrawing from the proposed Super League. We made a mistake, and we apologise for it.

We just await Boris claiming credit for it now.

It was almost worth the angst to see this as the end result.

 :tikay:

Could you imagine if betting companies had to answer to their 'fans' ie customers who lose and donate to them (which should happen in 99% of punters) in business why do 'fans' even have a say in how businesses that they have no ownership % at all think they have a say?   The whole thing has always amazed me but post covid the fans have even less say as owners have realised 'old school' fans who attend games don't really make much difference to the modern day business model.   It is all tv stream revenue.

I am totally bemused by "fan power" in football. If I owned a football club, no fan (or football pundit) is going to tell me how I spend my money.

And yet fans seem to think they have some God given right to dictate to the owners of the clubs they support. They don't.

I guess it’s twofold.

If Paddy Power piss off a punter they can bet with other bookies. Fans don’t change clubs.

And I suppose it’s a community thing. Clubs make up part of the fabric of our communities and history, more than just a business.   No one gives a shit about a bookie.

Comparing apples and pears.

New coke

I thought you would agree with me.   Why is Boris being asked to get involved in a load of businesses/football clubs to ensure the 'customers' get what they want?   Can we ask Boris to sort out 365, hills, skybet and lolbrokes if i am a 'fan' and don't like my account being closed?  totally strange.

'fans' do change clubs and i would guess the majority of 'fans' who pay the bills via tv don't have a club they are just casual especially outside of the uk where the revenue is really coming from nowadays.  If it was all about UK 'lolloyalfan' revenue they would have been on £250k a week when i was a kid.   Its the casual non club fans who drive the marginal revenue globally not domestically.   Football like all major sports is a global business who don'tt need hardcore fans in the stadium.   They don't make them money these types as much as these hard core fans ego think they are important they really aren't in 2021.   Covid has shown the owners that the game can easily operate without the 10% hardcore fan whatever these deluded fans think EPL wise with tv money.   Outside of the EPL football is fucked without turnstile fans.

I'm not sure he was asked, he just decided to poker his nose in, presumably for reasons of vanity. Government should not meddle in football.

Football is a really small industry outside of the lol fans.   Flutter and its firms are worth £20bn.   Skybet, betfair paddy etc.   The biggest 6 football teams combined in the uk aren't worth anywhere close to flutter value wise   I think sometimes people forget even at the top top level football teams are still mickey mouse when it comes to businesses which is what they are nowadays. 365 on its own in Stoke are worth nearly as much as the english 'big six' market cap wise and they are privately owned in Stoke.  All the money goes to the players but the players  never take any shit in these times.   They just sit back quietly and hoover it all up;

Wouldn't be surprised to see the Prem, seriously cut numbers at some point in the future. Quite likely to do so without any automatic promotion as well.

LOL

Assuming "hard core" is another expression for fans who attend matches:

Premier big boys need matchday income - Arsenal it's about 25% of turnover

Premier smaller clubs - yes they could budget on TV income. Bottom premier about £100mil TV revenue compared to say Leeds in 18/19 when just £9million

Championship and below (except the parachuters) and all the way down the pyramid are dependant on matchday income.

The Premier League TV deal for 18/19 was split 65% from domestic rights and 35% from international deals.

COVID has obviously screwed up most business models - fans needed in stadiums for most.

Fans in stadiums will always be important for the TV backdrop.

If clubs don’t need ‘lolfans’ why do they spend so much on building extra stands, or new stadiums?

And why have they all made stonking losses in the last 18 months with no fans in the grounds?!

Match day attendance is definitely an integral part of football club finances - but I don't think the fan's outrage has anything to do with the Super League reversal (or basically any decision major clubs make).

My immediate assumption was that the clubs involved got advice or information which confirmed that the various governing bodies definitely could actually kick them out or at least significantly penalise them (particularly the European tournaments and the Premier League).

Football clubs will make decisions based on what's good for them - usually their finances; but it sounds good if they make a statement that it was about the fans particularly if it involved reversing a previous decision.

Hardcore fans are always going to be a reliable source of income, clubs can do what they were always goinig to do all along and if it happens to be what the fans want then they can pretend that it was based on them otherwise they just ride it out until the fans get over it.

 I don't think Arb thought it through fully  ;)

Broadly agree with the fan outrage comment but it does play a part.
Bigger consideration for the clubs is threat of government intervention, UEFA hard ball, player/staff reaction, stakeholders, sponsors etc.
If this had gone further down the line almost certainly there would be a drop-off in  ST renewals which directly impacts the bottom line.

Fan protests do work sometimes - recent ones involving Liverpool fans forcing u-turns against ticket price hikes, the introduction of furlough and (partially) project big picture. In all 3 cases the owner said he was sorry and would do better. And now he's apologised again!

But ultimately billionaire owners are only interested in the ££££.