blonde poker forum

I had a bad feeling about tonight's tournament, after having some success in the afternoon, but I never thought the hand that effecetively knokced me out would be quite like this: I'd be really interested to hear the thoughts of fellow Blondites on the hand:

Blinds are 50/100, I have 10 9 on the big blind; one player limps in late position, and the small blind is in.

A beautiful flop comes 10 10 9; I have flopped a full house! The flop is checked round.

Turn J; four different suits on board; the jack looks a great card as it's making straights possible.

Action proceeds as follows: I bet 200, the limper reraises to 700, I raise 900 more to 1600(making the pot 3500),  he immediately goes all in for 6800 more, a massive overbet of the pot.

A couple of questions:

1) What possible hands would you put the other guy on?
2) Would you give any thought to passing your hand?

Unfortunately, this is only twenty minutes in, and I haven't seen the guy play more than a very small pot, so I have no information on how he plays, or how good he might be. Would be really interested on hearing people's views

Stuart

You can't pass, only two hands are beating you. If he has JJ or J,10 then you lose all your chips.

1) I probably wouldn't stop to think for more than a mili-second about what cards he has.

2) I know I'm not folding my hand.  If he has 10J for JJ then good luck to him.  Thats poker and I just got very unlucky.  I think its much more likely that he has 10 Q, 10 8, Q K, 7 8, A 10, QQ, AA

Given his position I can't think of any possible hand he'd have that I wouldn't be betting on the flop with unless I also flopped the FH with 99.

This has to be a bad beat post though so he must have had QQ, KK, AA and he paired the river for a beter FH?

Stu

In fact not a bad beat post at all!

Cheers for the responses guys, very interesting stuff.
The way I lost the hand... I passed it!

I gave the guy credit for having a very serious hand, thought for about seven minutes (before calling the clock on myself!) and thought it likely he had a higher full house, or that the pot was possibly being split. 

Wrong!

The guy was happy enough to show his KQ straight, and I'd made the most awful laydown ever. I just couldn't make myself believe that, given my re-re-raise, he wasn't worried his straight was beaten. I'm fairly sure he didn't mean it as a massively sophisitricated bluff, just that he thought he was ahead.

AS someone pointed out, they dont call me Easy Pickings for nothing

I bet you have great big bruises where you have been kicking yourself!

Trouble is - next time you will call he'll have the jacks   :D

Stuart, as you know, i saw the hand from very close proximity (the button) - i told you at the time that there is no way i would have folded but you put the guy on a hand and you made your decision - sometimes your right and look like a genius and sometimes your wrong and look like a.... err rock?!

Would he overbet the pot with the nut F/H??? would you? I'd think maybe 2nd nut TJ but more likely a staight and lump it in...... esay to say now though

1) The only hands I think the opponent plays that way are 99, T with a big kicker (AT, KT maybe) or the straight, where he likely believes he's currently ahead but is vulnerable to redraws.  With the hands that are beating you (JJ and JT) he'd likely be calling your re-raise on the flop and pushing after you inevitably bet again on the turn.

2) There's no way I fold here.  I don't think I'm behind to a hand played that way.

Sheriff

PS: Easy to say this with hindsight but the heat of the moment does strange things to the brain.  Don't beat yourself up too much, dust yourself off, put it down to experience and move on!

Interesting stuff guys, many thanks. Was great to have you at the table Junior, as you understood that at least it was a tricky decision, though you would have made absolutely the right one yourself.

 You realised exactly what my hadn must be from my long think, whilst a couple of people at the table simply could not believe what I'd done, seeing no reason for it at all.
In fact, one decieded to give me the rub down for the next twenty minutes, first bit of gamesmanship I've ever experienced at the table!

I'm calling with any pair tonight, save myself the misery! Cheers guys

I think his massive reraise on the turn smells of a straight and more than this looks like the top end.

He puts you on slow playing trips here and when the straight comes obviously wants his chips in ahead with the best of it whilst possibly driving out hands that can draw on him.

The size of his bet indicates that he doesn't have the nut hand. (ie one of the top 2 houses)

One of the best bits of advice I got (and didn't pay much attention to at the time! ) is "You can't win at poker without occasionally folding the best hand"

I would probably have folded as well unless I had solid reasons to believe that he would overplay a str8 or a bare ten.

he would surely raise JJ so only hand im scared of is JT, and i am now way good enough to lay down a hand when im my own mind im only losing to one possible two card starting combination. Just to recall how many possible starting hands are there? I probably should know but dont, i know its a lot though, I really cant advocate a fold in this situation especially not in a tournament with increasing blinds etc.. Just recap the hand, you flop the top full house and fold to pressure on the turn when a realtively insignifacnt J falls??? If he has JT you have to lose youre chips and have double whiskey at the bar!

Hi Stuart

The guy playing the hand was Charlie Denton who I play with regularly up in Liverpool and I had a chat with him about the hand afterwards, he put you on trip Tens but not on a full house and he went all in thinking he was ahead and that you wouldn't pass your AT is how he thought it.

The standard up in Liverpool is a lot lot weaker and most players there would have called that bet with just a Jack!

i didnt like that guy who gave the rub downs afterwards (what had it got to do with him?!!) - it was not necessarry especially when he wasn't involved in a pot with you or had any history. - you did well to ignore him.

There's two hands that would get allin here that are beating you - JJ and JT. Would JJ check a T hi flop? Pretty unlikely. So JT is the only realistic hand you are behind to.

What other hands will get allin here? QK 78 Q8 AT KT QT other assorted Ts, all of which u destroy.

Stick em in stick em in.

Cheers guys, good advice all round.
The missing link in the hand, and what led me astray, is my perception of what he thinks I have.  I thought that my re-re-raise would practially announce that I had better than trips, but it's wrong to assume that other people know my play as I know it myself.
I'm very new to live tournament poker, so a big lesson for next time! (when he will of course have JT)