blonde poker forum

tonight sees the £500 pot limit holdem freezeout at luton.with 10 000 starting chips and 45 minute levels ,another well structured tournament from the luton staff.
snoopy will be sending the occasional updates when he gets the chance , so i will post them on here to keep you informed



amongst the field tonight are
tight end
nick w
rob yong
slick kid

GOOD LUCK FELLAS!!!!

good luck boys x

Can't believe sloppy is still in.

get him to have another burger ;)

that would double his weight

;)   any more updates?

just got message from blue squares very own roving reporter colchester kev..........no blonde casualties as yet....................snoops will send update at the break............likely to be about 10.30pm

snoops 8 000 chips....tighty out set vs straight according to snoops but he has been known to get it wrong

110 runners


as I left Burnley John was chip leader at 30k having had AA vs QQ and KK vs QQ

Chunky Mick has doubled up

other notables there include elbrownie, iwan jones, jp wernick, rob yong and smithers, lucy rokach etc

snoopy was active but stuck around starting chip level

I flopped middle set, mid position guy flopped the straight.....early bath for me!

Unlucky TightEnd,

You playing any others this week?

No Jim, I am about to take care of my kids for a ten day stretch which will be great but means I miss the rest of the festival, which is unheard of for me at Luton, but family comes first.

Unlucky to find a big hand there Tighty but the good news is youve got your kids over for ten days. Have a good time fella.

lawrence   3000
burnley john  32000
snoops   7100
jp kelly  22000

julian out........(maybe)

any idea how the yongsta is getting on?

How's slick kid getting on? Wish him luck.

rob yong 35000
snoops 6000

snoops out.........4100.chips.......blinds 300/600..........raises pot with A9 suited......mateyboy puts him all in with pocket 5s...........flop is 995..............that is so unlucky snoops

He doesn't need it. This man is on a rush like no other!

Definately my pick. To come second to El Blondie I mean.

Errr what ?

Sooooo unlucky to lose a race. Sick the way it panned out but run of the mill IMHO.

Anyhow Sloppy is saving his A game for the main event, he has some sponsorship you know.......

Went out in 56th tonight lads 55 against AK with shortish stack. Flop comes K K 9, lol. Very happy with my game tonight except for one hand were l put down A Q on a 9 Q 5 rainbow flop after the original raiser, re-raised my pot raise on the flop. He had pocket Jacks............GREAT PLAY.  It was a fantastic game with a good structure and the atmosphere was pleasant. Give me a few hands on Thursday and l will get busy..

Just got back from Luton. 18 players left. Still in are Mick Wernick (what an amazingly consistant player), Dave Clarke, Bambos on my table. I think Bambos will be chip leader with aroung 120,000 chips which is about average for final so he's in great shape. He had AA, AK, AKs, QQ, KK in 5 consecuive hands but never got fully paid off!

I have around 95,000 chips mainly from stealing uncontested blinds, I lost a 60,000 pot with QQ v KK when I should have laid down pre-flop to an absolute rock. I played okay after bluffing 5k off in the 2nd hand with 43off on a AAQKT board - stupid as per usual and a great call by David Lloyd on the river.

The structure has been excellent but was late starting, 8.50pm, which meant it took till 5.20am to get down to 18 players and as usual the staff very friendly. They also changed the payout structure after the comp had started which cheesed a few people off, mind you, its impossible to keep everyone happy. I think we got £500 worth of good comp tonight, thumbs up Luton.

nice work Rob, good luck in day 2.

 ;iagree; ;karabiner;

Good luck for today Rob

Regards

M

Best of luck Rob,

read your PM's if you get a chance

TY please :)

I also played in this tournament last night and got knocked out about 30th I think. Never really got going and the most chips I ever had was 19k. However the blind structure was superb and it wasnt until after the last break of the night when the blinds reached 1k and 2k that I felt short stacked. There were a lot of muted comments about the payout structure, several players complaining that it was too flat.In my opinion %age wise I think it was about right but I feel with only 110 runners there was no need to pay £750 for 10th to 18th places. I think Grosvenor structured the payout to try and stop deals being done at the final table. On a final note good luck to all those who have made it into the final 18 this afternoon.

Good luck Rob!!

On the other hand it is also nice for those who have travelled back for day two to be rewarded.

My view is that paying 18 places for 100+ runners is okay.

 ;iagree; Its hard when you travel from say somewhere in the North and finish just outside the money.

Payout structure sounds good to me, £750 gives you your entry back and covers the expenses :)

On 2nd thoughts for people that travelled from afar it makes sense to reward them for making day 2.............being that I only travelled by car from North London I didnt really look at those who had travellled further to get there and had to pay for accomodation overnight too.

Paying 18 is ridiculous imo. Who cares if they have to miss work. When they register for a 2 DAY EVENT, surely they understand this.

Absolutely right.   :goodpost:

Your up early Dubai, I thought you didnt do daylight

I keep the curtains closed and pretend its 8pm mate, plus out on the Razz tonight so got to gut the fish earlier

I crashed out at around 1am or something. Played decent poker (the odd error here and there) but never got the rub of the green.

I thought this comp was top notch. 10k starting chips on a pot limit comp with a 45 minute clock. You can't ask for too much more. Top stuff and plenty of room to maneouver.

I agree with Dubai. Paying 18 isn't worthwhile with just 110 players.

I like the flatter structure, but I think they should stick in the 18-11 place money too. I don't care about gettin my dosh back,  I wanna win.

good luck to yongster

My opinion is a balanced one on this subject.

In an ideal world, only 9 would come back for day 2 - making the "do we/dont we pay 18-10th any money?" irrellavent.

But as we dont live in an ideal world, what Luton have done in the past is ONLY pay top 9, BUT give 18th to 10th something like £200 to cover "expenses". - A wonderfull idea,,,, and this was only done if ALL 18 agreed.

So I think that to give 18th to 10th Something is good - I feel that £750 is a little too much - as it takes too much of the top.

Just my point of view.

but they have taken the decision to up the amounts given to 10th to 18th so as to provide them with a small profit...previously they recevied a sum that represented a small loss

This was done after complaints from the players!

Likewise the flattening of the prize structure!

By and large the team at Luton gets it VERY right and listens to players a lot.

To ensure playing down to just 9 for day 2 would have meant either starting earlier or altering the blind structure which by all the comments on here would ruin the tournament. I entered the tournament knowing the structure and correctly IMO believing it was an excellent structure. As for the distribution of prize money there are 2 schools of thought with regard to flatter or top heavier structures. I personally feel the first prize of just under 16k was about right for a tournament with a prize pool of 55k. However the tournament was advertised as paying just 9 places but there is always the small print which states management reserve the right to make amendments if they see fit. Personally I feel all festival tournaments should have the prize structure advertised prior to the start and this should be stuck too the same as the blind stucture then its up to the individuals if they wish to enter the tournament. Moving the goalposts after a tournament has started are not fair IMO.

I agree with you 100% Mr Tighty - Luton are one of THE best at Tourney structures at the mo.

The only thing that needs to be decided really is where the threshold is for paying two tables as opposed to one.

I feel that paying two tables is okay if there are more than 100 runners, although it would seem fairer were there 180.

The trouble is that there is no "middle path", you either pay nine or eighteen.

How about paying 10 for 100, 11 for 110 and so on? Or is that a dumb idea?

the only problem with that snoops is when you pay say 10 players you are hand for hand with 6 and 5, so if you are on a table of 5 its a lot heavier on a mid-short stack.

How about just doing the even numbers then?

odd you mean....

10,000 chips and 45 min clock is too slow imo for a Monkey Freezeout.

True, but from a sefisih point of view it was cool for me cos I don't get to play many main events cos of updating and whatnot.

I don't like the idea that the £500 freezout has the same amount of starting chips as the main event. Doesn't quite seem right.

Agreed Snoops. 7000 would be adequate and therefore get the field down to 9.

them as well  ::) :-X

I agree with this. 10k chips did seem high...not that I was complaining!

u playing the 750 Adam

No m8, gonna rest on my doghouse so I'm fresh for the weekend.

snoopy

I think if 10% of the runners are paid then that's fair enough.  Rounded up/down to the nearest ten:

64 runners - 6 paid
66 runners - 7 paid, etc.

110 runners, 11 paid seems fine to me.  7 x £750, for the others to 18th, is a fair chunk from the prize money.  I wouldn't be best pleased in the final knowing over 5k has gone to the bubble merchants. 

I am a tight git though  0:-)

I agree, although Flushy has a point about the balance of tables.

ps. Llevan - check your private messages

Just heard that there are 8 left, Rob is there and around second in chips, no other details.

10k is definately too much for £500, especially pot limit.
Are they making the main event 15,000 t/c?

Main Event is 10k

Whats the £750, 5000 + 5000 ????


P,S Come on Rob.............

Another 'come on rob' from this corner. I hope everyone's been impressed by the Dust Till Dawn t-shirt!

bad news .... Rob makes a play from the button with AJ and bambos defends (as he does) but unfortunately Bambos finds queens and they stand up ...

Rob is out in 7th.

Who else is in Kev? some updater you are ;)

Just got back from Luton. I think the final table will go on for a long time, its very tight. I would say I made the right move at the wrong time, Bambos has RR me 4 times when I raised on the button, I made my mind up I would play back with AJ before I even raised, XXXX happens. I think Bambos has played great in this comp, although the deck has hit him in the face.

In terms of structures, payouts, as long as the casino makes them clear before we enter then we should have no issues with it. I would like to say though that a lot of players play the UK comp circuit by borrowing, selling % of themselves or "nipping" people, so I like more people getting paid out and a flatter structure to disincentive deals and keep the money in the community. There are so many players on the UK circuit who are flat broke and cant afford to live next week if they don't cash.

The problem is poker player expections : In my view anyone who sets out to make a living out of purley live tournament poker is totally nuts, of course you get some winners, but exceptions prove the general rule. There is so much luck involved and the "long term" is so long that most players bankrolls will never stay above water to see the +ev of there "skill advantage" anyway. Lets face it, you should never risk more than 1% of your bankroll in a comp according to the "gaming maths theory", so how many people had a £50,000 poker bankroll who played the £500 comp at Luton?

This is why we have all these views about flatter payouts etc, the bottom line is tournament poker is gambling - don't expect to make a profit. Steve Lui is one of the best tourney players around, and he did not win a live comp for 2 years. The solution for me is more sensible payouts (as Luton have done), poker players playing at their bankroll level and having realistic expections. WHY DO YOU THINK ONLINE TOURNEY PAYOUTS ARE SO FLAT - TO KEEP MORE PLAYERS IN THE GAME AND PAYING RAKE.

The winner today gets into the £100k freeroll at the Vic sponsered by Blue Square, which is a brilliant idea. Luton card room are really trying to make positive changes for the majority on players, rather for people who want high payouts for 1st place so they can pursade themselves that they are more likely to make a profit by getting that 1 big hit - its a pipedeam.

If I was a professional poker player I would treat live comps as fun and a chance to hit that 100-1 shot, and would use online cash games to pay for this "luxury". You get dealt so many hands per hour, your positive ev from your "superior skill" is much more short term and so many "new fish" are entering the market. It is totally feasible to play online, 4 tables, low limits for 5 hours per day and earn £50k tax free per year with your winnings + rakeback.  You could then have a gamble and do the UK live circuit for £20k, and use the other £30k for living costs. This is what I would do if i was a poker pro. This way the payout structure would not be so important as so many players livelyhoods would not depend on it.

In my opinion you are 100% spot on.

Nice post Rob ill be having a night off tomoz in the Luton £750 touney, I look at it as a night out and win or lose ill have some booze and talk to real people without typing on my laptop. :cheers:

I dont think flatter payouts are good at all, I think 1st place should get the lot and if they wanted to buy 2nd and 3rd a drink then so be it.

I'm in the one prize camp as well. The problem with this flatter structure is that it discriminates against the players that want to play for a big first prize, at least with a steeper prize structure there is always the option for those that want to deal to flatten it, this has now been taken away.

I know walsall pay out top 3 if there is less than £1000 in the prizepool, and 9 if above.
If there are more than 100 players then they pay top 18.
I was talking to a mate today who played a sat at luton for the main event, he said the clock went from 15mins to 10 mins and then to 5 mins!!! just to get it finished, what a joke!!
I also agree with riverdave regarding flatter structures (i have said this before) but if you want a flatter structure then do a deal, don't force your opinions on everyone else.

Surely 40% forces opinions on those who want 35%.

Works both ways I would have thought.

If it is 40% for the winner with 5 left say, then you can deal to whatever percentage you like, if it is set at 35% you cannot deal to a higher percentage, so no it doesn't work both ways.

So basically, you're saying that it has to be 100%...

otherwise the 40% is forcing its opinions on those who want 45%.

or am I missing something?

No, i am saying that by flattening the structures you are effecting people, by leaving them as they are you aren't.

The payouts were fine before, why Luton have to change the payout and made the clock so long its boring Its not right. Because a few players say we want longer clocks and payout half the field dont make sence. If you want to play a 2 or 3 day comp just save up for a big buy in comp but having two day comps for £100 buy ins and then to get your money back finishing 18th after two days hard work puts me off playing.

If that were the case, almost everyone would go skint, and attendances would plummet.

O and give us so meny chips its not worth playing the first 4 levels but not letting us arrive late because we gotto be there for the first hand.

yeah i was only kidding about 1st gets all but i think they should get a least 40%

PMSL


Why not? Of course you can.

Absolutely unbelievable, shocking and mind boggling ................. ifm has a mate ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ??

Kev being a mate of Mardy Mustard turned you into a Shmuck.

Regards

M

p.s I like you mate, but you are a Smuck    8)

IMHO players that can't afford big buy-ins are just as entitled to a good structure as anyone else

£100 is just as important to them as £1500 is to you

I agree Tom but all im saying is what is a good structure ? most poeple think that the longer the clock the better the structure which I think is not true, If you play with 3 hours levels is that the best structure ever ? You will just wait for one player to get kings and the other player get aces and it all goes in pre flop and thats not at all skillfull. See you tomoz at Luton tomoz mate. btw £100 is important to me checkey

I understand what you're saying Foxy, but if I use your argument and take it to the other extreme, why not have 5 minute rounds?

All I'm saying is if an hour clock is about optimum for a £1500, it is also optimum for a £100

BTW, we don't all play like you, jamming every pot with any two cards, but if the clock was too quick, then we would have to, and you would have lost your edge  8)

you saying im a . what are you saying red ?

if your saying ive got no game and all i do is reraise peolpe of pots and hope that the blinds go up quickly so I can hope to get luckey, well I think ive been well and truley found out  >:(

Payout and ante structures have been discussed over and over on BP. A awful lot of people were crying out for flatter, longer structures that would disincentivise deals. I'm sorry, but for main events at festivals the vast majority of poker players would prefer a 1hr min clock and to receive a decent profit for reaching a final table. I have spent the last 3 years travelling roung the world mixing with players at all levels of bankroll and nationalities and these are 2 simple facts.

If you love poker, you know how pleasurable it is to play the streets and your draws, and how hard it is to make a final table. There are always some voices against the majority, and they should be able to voice there opinions, but it would be nice to hear all those who posted complaining about crapshoots and deals applaud the Luton card room for making positive changes.

Opinions are important, but who gives them is even more important.  For example, experienced players such as Dave Coleclough, Simon Trumper, Devilfish and Paul Jackson are more likely to have meaningful input on festival structures and payouts compared to players who do not have their tournament experience. What YOU would like for yourself and what is GOOD FOR TOURNAMANT POKER are 2 different questions as it depends on your personal financial situation. Personally, I would be happy to play a winner takes all and play my hole cards all-in blind BUT that is because poker is a recreation for me. For the vast vast majority of people a £1500 main event outlay is a serious amount of money to lay out in the UK, so the payouts and stuctures must have THESE peoples best interest at heart.

It cheese me off a bit when people speak about £500 comps like they are a few spare pennies. 3 years ago a £500 freezout was a really big comp in the UK, now its a side event. Okay, some people may be loaded, but maybe its a good idea to respect money as one day any high roller could be playing £20 re-buys at the local casino, luck can change in a second and I wish people wouldn't forget where they came from.

Also, people who dont play the UK main event circuit shouldn't really express their views so strongly, as you have to play the circuit to understand how important it is to look after majority of players. I've seen posts on other threads from people on BP supporting top end payouts but they are renowned to ask for a deal, I find this very hypocritical. I am personally still owed over £100k from being "nipped" in casinos, and some of them are people you would never expect to be broke.

Thats it for me on this subject, I know that the Luton Card Room staff read BP for feedback so I wanted to tell them what a good job I thought they have done and hopefully the £750 and £1500 will be just as good.

 :goodpost:

hey red you done a great job on 854,move over tk lol wd m8 you looked very smart didmrs red make you wear that tie?lol wd good job  :)up

I'm saying considering the amount of pots you've pinched, you should be hiding in Brazil

I'm not knocking it, I'm just jealous cos I can't do it

I wish I could have put it like that   :goodpost: :respect:

LOL nice 1 red dog, this is set up nicely for tomoz, I got a feeling we gonna be on the same table or we will do battle later on in the touney, so watch out cos im after your BB  ;slavedriver;

Mrs Red bought me a big bag of ties from Oxfam, they're great, some are even still knotted and ready to go

zzz  ;sleep; Is that Foxy and his idle threats again?

He's a pushover RED, nothing to worry about. Just tell him it's happy hour at the bar.

I agree wholeheartedley with this.

A good tournament structure is one that gives the best players the best chance of success.

The price of the buyin is totally irrelevant, and the notion that these good structures should only be available for the most expensive events thus precluding the vast majority of players from enjoyng them is IMO quite ridiculous.

sorry.....i had to say one more thing as do feel strongly about this. BP is becoming a reference for many of the card rooms in the UK to get feedback on the way they operate (payouts, structures, rules etc). Because of this I think posters should have more responsibility when they crictise card rooms/casinos etc.

For example, when a card room manager whose worked his backside off looks at a thread on BP for feedback, they might not realise that the poster knows little or nothing about festival tournament poker and may be influenced by their comments. I have noticed that sometimes the people posting their strong views on festival tournamants know little or nothing about playing the UK festival circuit (the card rooms may not know this). How can anyone who doesn't play the UK festival circuit comment on how it should be run? It costs about £30k to play 2 events at each UK festival, these are the people who support the UK festival circuit, and the people that casinos should be listening to, NOT the "back seat drivers" who never play or just enter the odd event when its near their house and they won a satelitte and are free rolling.

On dodgy ground here saying this, but BP is having a voice in how the UK cicuit is run and we are being listened to.

Is this the £500 luton pot limit live update thread, maybe we you start a new thread, btw Karabiner the prise of the buy in does make a differents, other wise there would be nothing special about winning a main event bar the cash and money aint everything ,I plkayed a £10 rebuy comp at star city in the week now if that was a two day event with a 1 hour clock nobody would play it beacuse most if not all have a job to go to in the morning.

how come u were playing a £10 rebuy??

Just to hijack this thread in some direction towards the original topic I popped into Luton tonight to buy in for tomorrows Double Shootout.

Took a quick scan at the results for the £500, Bambos was 1st, Mike Magee 2nd and Mickey Wernick 4th.

No idea if any deals were done.

Sheriff

I'm obviously not talking about £10 rebuy tourneys here Foxy.

But why should £100 or £200 freezeout tourneys not have an equally playable structure as a £1500 main event ?

they had a happy hour at the bar snoops :ironside: thats why. No because I enjoy poker at all levels and I want a longer clock I told them  :)up

To be honest, I'd like to see a longer clock in the main event where more money is at stake. I wouldn't want the same stucture for each event.

Personally I feel a flatter pay structure should be the way forward. As already mentioned, many players have large costs involved, and they dont have the bankroll to sustain playing at all the events.
The main reason I believe in flatter payouts is that by the time the final table comes it's more of a crapshoot. Why should most the money go to the top 3 when luck usually determines those spots.
Some tournaments you will just about make your buy-in when finishing 9th or 10th with 100+ runners.

As Robyong put it, at some point we need to support the players who support the events.

Yes Karabiner your right they should be the same as the main event, right good fun tonight im off to bed now, Ive enjoyed posting on here all night and hope some good points were made none by me but its been a ball see you chaps tomoz  :respect:

If "foxy" is Stuart Fox :

You are a bigger MUG than you look. Cheers pal. See you in Luton, hopefully on your table 2 seats to your right.

 0:-) :)up

Looks like tomorrow night could be fun :)  :D :D  ;goodvevil;

Please, oh please let me be on a table with Foxy, Rob and Red - WHAT FIREWORKS!!!

GL to all Blondites playing tomorrow .

can i be on the table also ,

nice might as well stick lawrance on as well

Barry, people all over the country pay huge bribes to tourny directors to get on your table !!!

Yeah,,, and lets throw Dave Courtney into the mix  ;goodvevil;

Dont Blink though, cos ure likely to miss it!!!

Strong words Rob.

I agree with most of the points you have made in this thread but I think you have missed the point regarding feedback from players that dont play as many festival events as you and many others.

The reason that some people do not play the events is because they do not want to put up those size of buy ins to play a bad structured event, with a top heavy payout structure. I think I fall into the band of people you have aimed this post at but it is because the structures are bad and the payouts too top heavy that I would like to voice my concerns. If these things were put right I might play, that is no big deal to anyone but me, but it is a fair enough reason to have an opinion and to post it here.

It is good to see Luton taking more and more steps towards events that the players want.

send them on

Does anyone know the Results from this game?

Bambos won

You can't get more than the advertised first prize.

Ok i overheard some bloke telling someone else :D

Can't quite decide if that's having a pop at me or Kev.........

Why not?


I am one of them!!