I agree with you. The gap concept is not important as i don't there is a gap here between hands you might raise with and hands you might call with. it's a cash game you can always top-up/reload.

Cheers flushy. I actually think you have helped me to understand what the gap concept is properly but I got a little annoyed because I am sure you understand the point I was trying to make although I maybe didn't express it as clearly as you would of liked ;-)

dn

more importantly though can an administrator please put us out of our misery and tell us whether the winner has the same IP address as another member - it must be a piss take.

This would be appreciated. Even if it turns out that winner doesn't have the same IP address it would be extremely difficult to take his posts seriously as they are so ridiculous but playing a lot of tables there are plenty of people like winner so I actually think he is genuine. I will not be surprised to find out it is a wind up though.

dn

You were ahead :

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=2090849
pokenum  -o8 jd ts  - th   -- js
Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 820 enumerated boards containing
cards          scoop  HIwin  HIlos  HItie  LOwin  LOlos  LOtie     EV
        370    443    299     78      0      0      0  0.532
        299    299    443     78    224      0      0  0.468

If i am in a tournament where we are deep, which is what the gap concept is all aboout, i am less concered about the position of  the raise. The player is far more important.

I get what you are saying. I still think position applies here though but so do many other variables when you are considering calling a raise.

dn

Playing style affects how big the gap is yes. So does position. Are you telling me that if an opponent raises UTG or on the button the range of cards we can call with are exactly the same ? On the chapter on the gap concept in TPOAP Sklansky says we should consider folding hands as strong as AK when someone raises UTG.

Is Sklansky saying that if the same player raises on the button and we are in the big blinds with AK we should consider folding ?

I think we are over complicating things as there are numerous things we need to take into account when considering whether to call a raise but I can't see how position is irrelevant to the gap concept.

dn

While the gap concept is usually associated with tourament poker the basic idea that people play stronger hands from early position than they do from later position still applies to cash games.

Thats not what the gap concept is about either.

Sorry, but explain to me the gap concept then if it is not about needing a stronger starting hand to call a bet or a raise in a later position than your opponent would need to make the initial bet/raise in the earlier position pedant.

dn

Calling a raise with connectors has nothing to do with the gap concept. I have never heard it refferd to for a cash game hand aswell.

I knew this would happen. I take your point but I was trying to guide the ironically called winner into how to generally play better. While the gap concept is usually associated with tourament poker the basic idea that people play stronger hands from early position than they do from later position still applies to cash games. It seems winner has a lot to learn before thinking about how and when to play unsuited connectors.

dn

im trying to rebuild my bankroll so went back to 0.10-0.25 blinds.i deposited $20 which gave me a nice cushion(or so i thought).i called a small pre flop raise with .

The fact you forget to mention position and the size of the raise suggests mistake number one may be that you haven't really taken these things into consideration. I have seen ppl at that level calling a raise of 3xBBs with 52o in early position because "it was just a small raise". Calling a raise with 89o is probably mistake number two. Are you familiar with the gap concept ? If so then you should realise that you are behind at this point and should generally fold.

flop:

2 players still in and i called a small bet of $2.

Bingo. You have hit the flop hard and are probably ahead unless someone is slow playing AK. It is a dangerous looking board and the small bet of $2 is 8BBs. The two of them have a hand. Your opponents are likely to have both paired the board and have nut straight, flush and full house possibilites. You must raise here and not give your opponents the correct odds to draw out on you. I would raise the size of the pot here. Mistake number three is not raising here.

turn:

i was obviously winning the hand still so only made a small bet again to keep some action

You are not obviously winning the hand. The turn was a horrible card for you. AK still has you beat and JQ, QT just overtook you and anyone on a flush draw has just glided past you aswell. There is a chance you are still ahead though so you must raise here to try and take down the pot now and find out where you are.

river:

This card is a complete disaster for you. Someone will have an Ace and has just made the nut straight. You should now be folding your hand as there is pretty much nothing you can beat.

i move all in and am called by 2 players who show    and 

Or you can move all in and lose all your chips again. This push was even worse than the one yesterday with 66. At least with 66 against KK you had mibbe a 20% chance. Here you are completely dead in the water with a 0% chance of winning this pot.

i go broke again!im getting fed up with all these outdraws and am beginning to think online poker is fixed.

I think you may be serious but you need to go and do some studying. Your play here is about as horrible as it gets. It is all learning but my advice to you would be to invest your cash in some good poker books before returning to the tables.

dn

no need for that.i dont expect to have the piss taken out of me by smug idiots.

Take it easy it was just a joke.

Donk

   1.   a bad player; commonly also used to describe a good player who suddenly did something stupid - "I played that hand like a complete donk."
   2. to unexpectedly bet "I donked the ace on the turn, hoping that the player who raised the flop would fold."

dn

whats a donk?

Someone who gambles their entire bankroll on a pair of sixes ;-)

dn

i was hoping for a bit info than that!

I don't really know what advice you are looking for. Harrington on Hold'em is probably a good starting point if you want to learn how to play. You might want to go back to the levels you are used to playing, build up your bankroll and go up the levels more slowly.

Gambling your entire bankroll on any hand is pretty bad but suicidal with pocket sixes that if called is going to be a coin flip at best. You were closer to having a 10% chance when you ran into the kings.

dn

anyone have any advice what levels i should be playing or on how to improve my poker skills?

If you are serious and this is not a windup then my advice is -

Don't gamble your entire bankroll on a pair of sixes.

dn

Sounds like a good game full of muppets, present company excluded!.  What site is it?  Maybe I will pop along and make a donation.

Crypto. I can't say everyone plays that terribly but there were more than a few that played the way I have described. I am not sure if it is like that all the time but it was last night. I managed to increase my stack by over 100% in less than hour. If it is like that all the time then I will playing less texas.

On a different note, anyone tried playing Hold'em Blackjack yet ?

dn

But, I do agree that PLO8 can be a profitable game, and certainly at the moment I find it more interesting than Hold'em. I find it quite low variance as well, but if the above hand is typical of your style of play then you might not agree!

This isn't a good example. I have been doing well with STTs by playing pretty sensibly. I normally look to play A23x suited as most people do but in this cash game the guys at this table seemed to try and jam the pot everytime they have a low hand. I started to figure that it would be worth going along for the ride with hands like AK45 suited and A347 knowing that the implied odds of calling their big raises pre-flop are huge and that I am pretty much 50-50 anyway.

Another example is one of the guys re-raises another the pot with 11BB pre-flop. When the flop comes - he held - . I had and called his ridiculous bet of 44BBs on the flop very quickly and soon doubled up. They did this when they had nothing. If they have a hand on the flop then they don't make such huge overbets.

I agree it is an interesting game but I hope I am correct in saying that huge bets like these out of position with nothing but a good starting hand is astonishingly bad play.

Flop. I think this is a bad call. No 1 there's no doubt the flop has come badly for you. 2 low cards when you're looking for a high flop. Your only draws are backdoor ones. If he bet smallish, like in the region of a min bet, I might be inclined to take a card and try and hit a favourable turn card such as a HIGH club, or a T, Q or K. He doesn't, he bets pot. I would fold here.

That sounds like a pretty fair assessment. My OPP held A347 as it happened. On the flop I felt he had A2xx and had been counterfeited and was trying to get me out of the hand. I had seen several guys at this table do this before and had profited already from them raising pre-flop and then raising the pot on the flop even though it was all high cards giving me the nut flush draw. This is why I called the flop here but I was worried it was a bad call.

On the turn I figure he is hoping for a low card to come and that I still have a good chance of scooping the pot.

When he goes all in on the river I think his hand may of been stronger than I thought and that he was shoving all his chips in with AAxx regardless. I had my trips though so it was an easy call.

I think he played his hand terribly. It is always going to be suspicious if players are constantly raising the pot every single time and I got lucky here but these guys need to realise a draw to the nuts isn't actually the nuts. They still raise the pot when they miss their draw! It amazes me how easy it is to profit playing o8. I can't think of another version of poker where your opponents keep paying you every time you make a big hand.

I know I played the hand very loosely but I still feel I was right here as I was ahead all the way and would of been able to get away from my hand quite easily on the turn or river...............then doubled up again the next time I have a hand and my opponent keeps blindly raising the pot with nothing...

dn