This is a long read but it’s perfect! It comes from the Guardian’s daily football Perhaps the only thing everyone can agree on is that, according to our old friend The Letter of the Law, the “goal” Rayan Cherki scored from inside his own half in the dying moments of added time of Manchester City’s wild win at Liverpool was correctly ruled out. It took a while but, between them, referee Craig Pawson and his coterie of curtain-twitching buzz-killing fun sponges in the Stockley Park VAR bunker got there in the end. Football Daily shudders to think about how much tedious debate Cherki could have put a stop to by simply putting his boot through the ball a bit harder. But we’re guessing he spent much of his weekend watching curling at the Winter Olympics and was trying to channel his inner Jen Dodds by sending the ball trundling on its merry way with just enough force to cross the goal line but not so much that it might do anything so vulgar as ripple the net. Like the match officials, it got there in the end but only after Dominik Szoboszlai and Erling Haaland had engaged in some tit-for-tat fouling that led to the goal being correctly disallowed, the Hungarian correctly sent off and an entertaining debate between those who would prefer matches to be ultimately governed by “vibes” over VAR.

Cards on the table: Football Daily makes no apologies for declaring it is – and always has been – a resident of Camp Vibes, insofar as we never wanted VAR to be introduced in the first place because it ought to have been obvious to anyone who gave the matter even the slightest bit of consideration that it would end up being an absolute circus. A firm believer that you’re offside if the lino’s flag goes up and you’re onside if it doesn’t, the sight of video assistant referees using multicoloured lines, set squares and repeated slow motion rock’n’roll replays to figure out if some striker’s kneecap has strayed offside in the buildup to a goal makes us want to set something on fire.

More cards on the table: Football Daily (or today’s edition, at least) doesn’t care that allowing Cherki’s effort could have a significant bearing on the title or Bigger Cup qualification places, doesn’t care whether Liverpool’s best player this season is allowed to play against the team we support on Wednesday night, and doesn’t care that ultimately at Anfield on Sunday the correct decision was reached. As our pal, the actor, comedian and broadcaster Charlie Baker recently opined in an impassioned soliloquy on the wireless: “VAR is a thief of love and joy because beauty is in the mistake. The gold is in the cracks and that is why we like football because it is full of mistakes.”

In the past 24 hours we have seen, heard and read assorted pundits, journalists and fans drone on about how VAR ultimately led to this correct decision being made, while failing to point out how often it gets other decisions wrong. They are the same people who were falling over each other a few years ago in the stampede to tell everyone how great VAR would be and are now too entrenched in their view to admit they were wrong and acknowledge it is a complete shambles that is ruining everyone’s enjoyment of the game except theirs. In the absence of VAR, Cherki’s goal would have been allowed to stand, Szoboszlai wouldn’t have been sent off and pretty much nobody would have cared. In the presence of this all-seeing aid that was supposed to put an end to controversy, the debate rumbles on and a quite wonderful goal has disappeared. And while this may have been the correct decision, it was not necessarily the right one, and anyone who thinks otherwise is a jobsworth who is in thrall to rules, regulations, procedure and the small print of T&Cs. Ultimately, we suppose all this palaver boils down to results and how much they matter to any given fan over the actual match experience. Other opinions are available, but give us the spectacle over the spreadsheet any day

bias aside , i reckon liverpool will finish top fairly easily . arsenal 2nd chelsea 3rd city 4th . boring selections i know , but i just dont see villa or spurs get there

would happily take a friendly wager that utd finish outside top 6

hopefully this thread will carry on into general footy chat over the season

whoever your team is , post your thoughts about anything and everything that makes you happy or drives you mad

international break 1st week of september ffs

This aged well…

Statue of Michael Carrick out for tender.

Hi Tom, Hope you're keeping well.

When I was around 10 or 11 one of my Subbuteo teams was Shamrock Rovers and the players were not even !

My first Subbuteo set was that design. Not Shamrock Rovers, but it was a non 3 D set.

Munich didn’t destroy us, a decade of mildly disappointing results certainly won’t.

In memoriam.

Your writing on Blonde was exceptional.
The first post in this diary captured the imagination and the stories that followed were fascinating, moving, and educational.

[The Billionaires seem strangely missing...]

The Royal Family has had a huge problem for Decades in relation to the whole "heir and a spare" thing.

Ever since George VI was promoted (unready) to the top job at the last minute the 2nd in lines have been car crashes. Andrew doesn't look that out of place with Margaret and Harry. Spend years training for a job, then heir has kids, and there is nothing to fall back on.

My wife met Mandelson recently. She has no interest at all in Politics-and didn't have a clue who he was
The Mandelson thing is rather more important than Andrew in various respects. I'll forgive a sad man looking for a shag quicker than selling info on the sly.

For all the fuss about Epstein's Parties-and he did seem to have most of the World's elite at them-fact remains the only people getting heat are Bungalow Andrew, a Gay Man and 2 Women (Fergie and G. Maxwell).

The Billionaires seem strangely missing...

Bill Gates and Mad Musk are starting to get some heat…

Fabulous debate and debating gentlemen.

My take, sans the eloquence.

Andrew is an idiot.

The women knew what was what and didn't seem coerced or forced to me.

The media are undeniably necessary but often despicable.

Force and coercion aren’t always physical.
I mean, we don’t have a lot of information but we do know that Ghislane Maxwell was convicted of procuring girls as young as 14 for Epstein.
I don’t think they knew what they were getting into.

That's the good bit about debate. Because different people see things different ways. In my career, I had the dubious pleasure of advising both for and against many paedophiles. They are not just 1 group of people to be lumped into the same box. Life is more complicated than that.

Was Epstein a paedophile? We will never know. Not least because, while he was charged with various offences involving 14-yr-olds (in 2008), those cases were dropped.

The next point to make is that what constitutes either a "paedo" or a "sex trafficker" varies. Not only from Country to Country, but also from State to State.

The US (unlike the UK) has different rules relating to the legal age of consent, both for the act itself, and again for the age someone can charge for it. And, in some States, what me might term "pimping" has a lot wider definition.

To put that in a context that might resonate with Poker Players, what might meet the legal definitions in, say, Nevada, is 21. So any porn involving people who have not been proved to be over 21 is illegal. And anybody viewing UK porn in, say, Las Vegas is likely to be viewed as, technically, a paedophile.

In this instance, various legal arrangements in Florida became illegal once 17-20 year-olds were flown elsewhere.

The idea that there is something inherently wrong with trading trips to Buck House in return for cash or favours is faintly amusing. It's why we have a Royal Family. Why else do you think that Intellectual pygmy Andrew was a Trade Envoy for years? Why else is Trump (or various mass murderers) invited to Buck House?

Epstein's specialties were 2 fold.

1. Giving specialised financial and tax advice to the mega-rich; and
2. Being a supremely gifted networker. Long before Andrew. And to people infinitely wealthier. Which is, of course why the American Left just shout about Trump and Musk, while the American Right shout about Clinton and Gates.

Whereas, of course, the 1 thing both sides can agree on is finger-pointing at foreigners. And our Press love selling papers with lurid details dressed up as outrage. Always have. Always will.

Having said all that, the Maitliss interview was funny. I suspected Andrew was the man who put "genital" in "congenital idiot". What I didn't know is that there was no-one capable of stopping him making such a public fool out of himself.

I take your points - they are well made and provoked some thinking.
It doesn’t make me change my view of the piss-artist formerly known as…

Inviting The Donald to a State Visit in hopes of a favourable trade deal is a very different thing to arranging for Epstein and Maxwell to enjoy hospitality in hopes of a shag. Apart from anything else the hope seems more likely to be realised in the latter case.

Should we not add a third category to Epstein’s specials board? Or was that just part of his networking prowess?

Glad we agree on the comedy side.

I guess none of us were surprised that Mandelson had his snout in the trough.

Seriously?

What exactly did he do wrong?

Mr Mountbatten-Windsor and his ex-wife peddled themselves to the paedophile for years. Trips to Balmoral, Windsor and Buck House were traded for cash and for sexual opportunity. The excuses/rationalisations you make for him would apply to most of Epstein’s acolytes.
He added a veneer of respectability to Epstein, offered him access to society, stayed ‘loyal’ despite the earlier conviction, and lied about it. On the plus side, the Maitliss interview was hilarious in an Alan Partridgr/David Brent way but I don’t think he meant it to be.

I’m feeling good today

i bet you are . must be nice to see football , and character like that . its been a while .. thats not a dig btw

no idea whats happened up the M62 but its safe to say that my may 2nd prediction has gone long ago .

champions league it is then  , when we won it in istanbul 2005 we had a terrible league season , finishing 5th (below everton ffs) , and 37 points off chelsea . 

and it looks very likely that prem will get 6 places next season

champions league my arse

To my mind it’s pretty simple, post-Amorim we are playing in a structure that the players understand and have them playing in positions for which they are well suited.

We’ve been here before when OGS took over, but I am cautiously optimistic.

You’re not alone in those thoughts Tom, I think most of our age have had them.

Would I want to actually see people birched for mugging or phone snatching?

No. Not least because it would be a step along a very dangerous path that leads to an escalating scale of punishment that has only one end point.

I’m feeling good today

i bet you are . must be nice to see football , and character like that . its been a while .. thats not a dig btw

no idea whats happened up the M62 but its safe to say that my may 2nd prediction has gone long ago .

champions league it is then  , when we won it in istanbul 2005 we had a terrible league season , finishing 5th (below everton ffs) , and 37 points off chelsea . 

and it looks very likely that prem will get 6 places next season

champions league my arse

To my mind it’s pretty simple, post-Amorim we are playing in a structure that the players understand and have them playing in positions for which they are well suited.

What do they call that woman who acted as a nun in the Clint Eastwwod western?

What are Prince Rupert's drops?

Why do I keep seeing clouds of gnats in the middle of winter?

Don’t keep us in suspense, or force us into matching your search history

I’m feeling good today

Sorry Ralph, but that was great entertainment for a neutral.

And for the non-neutral