40 Gypsies arrive at the Pearly Gates in their Transit vans and caravans.

St Peter goes into the gatehouse and phones up God, saying. 'I've got 40
travellers here. Can I let them in?'

God says 'We are over quota on Gypsies . Go out and tell them to choose
between them which are the 12 most worthy, and I will let just the dozen
in.'

Less than a minute later St Peter is on the phone to God again. 'They've
gone', he tells God.

'What?' says God, 'All 40 of them?'

'No, the Pearly gates'.

Before anybody says anything missing manhole covers can also be attributed to non gypsies.

" I hate fkin pikeys " if i recall was posted by somebody lightheartedly referencing a film , as opposed to somebody making that claim. I have however said i " dislike gypsies " for reasons x,y and z which in a nutshell is the way they appear to conduct themselves in public. My reasoning did not include things like their physical features , their clothes , the way they breed , their caravans or what they eat , which are some reasons why some people hate certain races.

Have you given any consideration why there are so many people outside of his forum who dislike gypsies as opposed to shooting us down and dissecting what we have to say. Somebody mentioned a spate of burglaries on a business park but that was responded by with questions. Does it matter which clan they're from ? Another post mentioned mentioned the number of gypsies in prison and that was responded by questions . Does it really matter what crime they perpetrated or what they had for breakfast ?

I know many members on here have children so you can understand how upset they were in my area when gypsies took over a playing field for a week which prevented them from using it. When they moved on they left all their rubbish which included glass drinks bottles , tin cans  and excrement so they couldn't use it until the local council cleaned it up.

I'm sure some of you have driven in town and noticed grates and manhole covers missing. Theres a section in our local paper which puts up a hotline number if you spot any missing. Its things like this which contribute towards the illfeeling towards gypsies. When they set up move in the area and set up camp should we welcome them with open arms ? Of course not , but that does not mean we are "small minded " or "bigots" like some of of you say.

Like i said previously it does seem disproportionate the amount of those in the pro gypsie camp on here . I do think it may be because they are just merely supporting fellow gypsie forum members ,not that theres anything wrong with that , its just giving an unbalanced debate.

Red Dog i probably agree with most of your comments and if i bumped into you , you would probably be one of those i do not notice.

I'd just like to declare right away that I'm very racist, sexist, ageist and I don't like certain breeds of duck. The other thing I don't like are numbers people have pulled out of their arse.

I suspect acc2020s estimate that 75% of Gypsys are bad eggs is well off.

-There will more than likely be bad eggs that he'e counted as Gypsies who are not Gypsies.

-There will almost certainly be Gypsies he's met who were good eggs, but he was unaware that they were Gypsies.

-The Gypsy bad eggs probably get about a bit more than the Gypsy good eggs. For example your Gypsy good egg knocks on 12 doors and spends the rest of his day doing a driveway. The Gypsy bad egg knocks on 12 doors, takes a deposit, buggers off, knocks on 12 more doors, takes a deposit and buggers off etc etc. The end result is the Gypsies that cross his radar are not  necessary a representative sample of Gypsies.

End the post with a pithy short paragraph.

I wish to correct you there about my estimate. I have had some sort of social interaction with hundreds of gypsies mainly through the course of work , and out of them i would say 75% come across as rude , obnoxious scheming and untrustworthy. I'm not including the probable thousands I've walked / driven past / not noticed. The actual figure of bad eggs could be 10% , 25%, 60% but the 75% is what i have experienced personally.

How many subjects of a particular culture / race /group do i need meet to be able to form an opinion about them.

Why cant i have my opinion having met with say 400. Does that figure need to reach 1000 before i can form an opinion or do i need to meet every single one of them ?

Some of you guys have opinions having not much contact with them. If you believe 98% or 85% are good people  that's up to you , you are entitled to think that just like if i think the total opposite then I'm entitled to think that too.

Acc, Boldie's probably right, there are just so many other factors that you need to consider, that you can't rely on %incarceration on its own as an indication of %criminality.
Just been checking out the relative stats for black incarceration, it's pretty staggering. However I do think they get arrested more often.
In the USA black men are 6x more likely to be incarcerated than white men. Why is this?

I'm well aware these are just stats and is one persons interpretation of the figures. Incarceration does not implicitly mean someone is a criminal , i know that.  I had a friend who is a heroin addict , i had known him for over 30 years and gave him a lift a few times. The police spotted me with him and for the next few weeks i noticed i was frequently followed by undercover police cars. My house was raided for suspicion of supplying drugs and i spent a few hours in a police cell for protesting my innocence. I don't even smoke cigarettes. All this because i gave a junkie a lift on a few occasions. So yes i understand.

You do have to take notice that gypsies are more likely to end up in prison than the general population. Anybody who believes MANTIS01's theory that 98% are good law abiding citizens because they are not locked up are pretty naive.

I have been reading this thread with interest as i have lived in a town in Ireland that has a lot of Travellers associated with it for the last 10 years and am always hearing locals giving out about the "knackers"  but i myself have never been the victim of any crime while living here nor have i ever felt threatened or uncomfortable.
So i thought i would do some research and stumbled across a document published by the Irish Chaplaincy in Britain link below
 http://www.irishchaplaincy.org.uk/travellers.asp  
now this is a fairly dry report from a charity that are clearly trying to do some good and to help the Travellers that find themselves in prison with their literacy and overcome the settled communities prejudice and i wish them every success.

however, the report states that estimates are that 20-30,000 Irish Travellers live in England and Wales and a survey done in Sept 2010 found that 450 were in prison although they felt this was vastly understated and the number was closer to 800. so i did some maths (it's in my nature) there are about 50 million people in England and Wales and about 80,000 of them are in prison about 1 in 625, if we take the mid points of the reports estimates and say 600 out of the 25,000 Travellers are in jail we get a figure of 1 in 42 ish meaning an Irish Traveller taken at random is FIFTEEN times more likely to be in jail (therefore a criminal?) than someone taken from the general population.
does this mean all Travellers are crooks? obviously not
does this mean it's OK to "hate all Travellers"? of course not
is it OK to be more wary if a group of Travellers move into your neighbourhood? probably yes

it's been stated many times that every ethnicity or social group has good and bad people within it which of course is right but not every group has good and bad in the same proportion some have a higher percentage of bad and its not always just perception.

I would imagine the stats are some way off and there are additional factors like the inability to implement community orders that affect the results. But whatever, for arguments sake let's say those stats are accurate and we are using them to decide what's good and bad like you have. The way I would choose to interpret those figures is they tell me only 1-2% of Gypsies are in prison and bad. Thus 98-99% of Gypsies are not in prison and good. So when you run into a random Gypsy the probability is well in your favour they will be good.

Referring back to my ridic aces example. If somebody goes all-in during a comp and we look down to find aces there is no hesitation. We are totally committed and confident that this is good. We would never fold because a 85% chance of a good outcome and only a 15% chance of a bad outcome is overwhelming odds. We are certain to expect good. Yet when we switch to people a 98%-2% stat is supposed to prove a bad expectation is a reasonable attitude to carry thru life. That's like worrying about the last time aces lost and folding them. Why do we suddenly lose all our confidence when it comes to people? It all depends what attitude you want in life. These opinions are like a milestone to carry around with you really and I find it pointless because almost every random we meet will be decent. The stats prove that. So writing an article about a 1 or 2% stat and focussing on it is like writing an article suggesting you should fold aces. It's just a waste of time to live like that.

If you exclue my posts and Greeksteins faux pas about the council estate being dumb  you must agree this is this is the most rediculous post yet.

98% of a population is good because they are not in prison is absoltely stupid , never mind the fact he was refering to gypsies too. That figure refects the ones they've caught but what about the ones they haven't ?

Anybody not in prison must be good people.

I have been reading this thread with interest as i have lived in a town in Ireland that has a lot of Travellers associated with it for the last 10 years and am always hearing locals giving out about the "knackers"  but i myself have never been the victim of any crime while living here nor have i ever felt threatened or uncomfortable.
So i thought i would do some research and stumbled across a document published by the Irish Chaplaincy in Britain link below
 http://www.irishchaplaincy.org.uk/travellers.asp 
now this is a fairly dry report from a charity that are clearly trying to do some good and to help the Travellers that find themselves in prison with their literacy and overcome the settled communities prejudice and i wish them every success.

however, the report states that estimates are that 20-30,000 Irish Travellers live in England and Wales and a survey done in Sept 2010 found that 450 were in prison although they felt this was vastly understated and the number was closer to 800. so i did some maths (it's in my nature) there are about 50 million people in England and Wales and about 80,000 of them are in prison about 1 in 625, if we take the mid points of the reports estimates and say 600 out of the 25,000 Travellers are in jail we get a figure of 1 in 42 ish meaning an Irish Traveller taken at random is FIFTEEN times more likely to be in jail (therefore a criminal?) than someone taken from the general population.
does this mean all Travellers are crooks? obviously not
does this mean it's OK to "hate all Travellers"? of course not
is it OK to be more wary if a group of Travellers move into your neighbourhood? probably yes

it's been stated many times that every ethnicity or social group has good and bad people within it which of course is right but not every group has good and bad in the same proportion some have a higher percentage of bad and its not always just perception.

One of the better posts on here. Interesting use of statistics. Also interesting is that the very next post is rubbishing your use of statistics , maybe because its doesn't fit very well with the pro gypsie camp.

You ask is it OK to be more wary if gypsies move into the neighbourhood and answer yes. This is my belief too.

A few have refered to me as a racist ,bigot and unintelligent. Maybe i am or maybe i'm not  doesn't really bother me what names i get called but let me ask one question , if when a group sets up camp near my home and i take precautions like purchasing extra locks and parking my car in the garage instead of on the drive.Is that an act of a racist , bigot and somebody unintelligent ? Would you deem me the villain ?

A lot of posters on this thread are in the pro gypsie camp ( despite having no contact with them but are giving their 37p worth ), a few are neutral and it seems i'm alone on my stance. This is not reflective of the view of the wider public whether the majority on here are right or wrong.Those of you who want to google the "why people dislike gypsies " debate you will find many many more posters like myself and realise it is you guys in the minority not me.

At what point does sterotyping become fact.

If i had supper with 1000 chinese families and conclude they like rice , can i use that to form an opinion or is that still sterotyping ?

[Do you think the council estate folk 3 miles from where you live are intelligent upstanding people?]

I find this topic interesting including some of the views posted on here. Just because i am in the minority on here doesn't mean i can't air an opinion. A lot of posts on this forum include sarcasm and risque innuendo's which seems perfectly acceptable but when on this topic i say something which some members disagree with you all come out and form a gypsie Fan Club.

If we made this physical out in the playground of Blonde Head Quarters I'm sure your supporters will by far exceed mine. If we took it to the council estate 3 miles from where i live you and your gypsie Fan Club wouldn't stand a chance.

Just when I thought your posts couldnt get worse...

Do you think the council estate folk 3 miles from where you live are intelligent upstanding people?

Cos, this post is as bad as his have been, DUCY ?

No I don't Ray but I can see why you'd think that as I haven't worded it great.

I'm not saying all people in council estates are x,y,z - I'm just saying they must be bad sorts/unintelligent if they share acc's views but ya might delete as its worded terrabadly.

Don't try and weasel yourself out of this , just say what you think. I knew what you meant.

I find this topic interesting including some of the views posted on here. Just because i am in the minority on here doesn't mean i can't air an opinion. A lot of posts on this forum include sarcasm and risque innuendo's which seems perfectly acceptable but when on this topic i say something which some members disagree with you all come out and form a gypsie Fan Club.

If we made this physical out in the playground of Blonde Head Quarters I'm sure your supporters will by far exceed mine. If we took it to the council estate 3 miles from where i live you and your gypsie Fan Club wouldn't stand a chance.

I'm sure that would be the same for a lot of prejudiced views as well related to ethnic minorities, Muslims, gays, etc.  Not sure why a group of random people from a council estate will have different views to a group of people from a posh estate in the suburbs though.

A point that Tom brought up earlier that you didn't respond to (you might have missed it amongst all the other posts) asked how you 'know' who is a Gypsy and who isn't?  You have attributed a lot of anti-social behaviour to Gypsies, when I'm guessing you mean 'travellers' (small t, rather than travellers with a big T).  Tom also mentioned that you probably come into contact with a lot of Gypsies and you don't even know they are, because they are not acting in a way you expect Gypsies to behave. 

I'm not keen on travellers who carry out anti-social behaviour.  I'm not keen on black or Asian gangs who carry out crimes.  However, I not keen on people who live in houses who carry out anti-social behaviour, or white gangs who engage in criminal activities.  The key part there is I don't like what they DO, what they ARE (in terms of race or skin colour, etc.) is irrelevant.  I think Islam is a horrible religion that promotes division and oppression (to non-Muslims, women, etc.), but that doesn't mean I hate Muslims.  I dislike a lot of what America stands for, but have nothing against American people. 

Some areas of the country have been affected more than others by gypsies. So therefore the opinion in my area is quite negative towards gypsies. This is based their anti social behaviour and the consequences to the area during their frequent stays.

I probaby passed thousands of gypsies in my car or on the street. Some I've noticed , some I've not  but my view is formed around the ones I've had social interaction with. How many do i need to interact with to form an opinion ? Like i said its in the hundreds over the years ,is that enough ?

I'm not keen on anti social behaviour like anyone else , but the ones who partake in these activities are in a minority within their own group , that i have noticed.

Your point about Islam and America is what i am saying about gypsies.

You say they're affected by Gypsies.  You know they're Gypsies?  Your next-door neighbour, are they Gypsies?  The bank manager, is he a Gypsy? 

My point about Islam and Americans is not the same as what you're saying about Gypsies at all, don't misrepresent me.  I don't have a 'position' on Muslims or Americans before I meet them - I treat them as individuals, not on preconceived stereotypes.  I do the same with Welsh, Greeks, Japanese, English, Scots - even the Dutch.

It doesn't bother me that someone was born a gypsie. What does concern me is if they are in the area my alloy wheels may go missing or the my gararge roof slates may go overnight. Don't say its just sterotyping because its a common occurance.

Maybe its just my area , maybe the gypsies in Kensington or Henley upon Thames or wherever you live don't do that sort of thing.

I find this topic interesting including some of the views posted on here. Just because i am in the minority on here doesn't mean i can't air an opinion. A lot of posts on this forum include sarcasm and risque innuendo's which seems perfectly acceptable but when on this topic i say something which some members disagree with you all come out and form a gypsie Fan Club.

If we made this physical out in the playground of Blonde Head Quarters I'm sure your supporters will by far exceed mine. If we took it to the council estate 3 miles from where i live you and your gypsie Fan Club wouldn't stand a chance.

I'm sure that would be the same for a lot of prejudiced views as well related to ethnic minorities, Muslims, gays, etc.  Not sure why a group of random people from a council estate will have different views to a group of people from a posh estate in the suburbs though.

A point that Tom brought up earlier that you didn't respond to (you might have missed it amongst all the other posts) asked how you 'know' who is a Gypsy and who isn't?  You have attributed a lot of anti-social behaviour to Gypsies, when I'm guessing you mean 'travellers' (small t, rather than travellers with a big T).  Tom also mentioned that you probably come into contact with a lot of Gypsies and you don't even know they are, because they are not acting in a way you expect Gypsies to behave. 

I'm not keen on travellers who carry out anti-social behaviour.  I'm not keen on black or Asian gangs who carry out crimes.  However, I not keen on people who live in houses who carry out anti-social behaviour, or white gangs who engage in criminal activities.  The key part there is I don't like what they DO, what they ARE (in terms of race or skin colour, etc.) is irrelevant.  I think Islam is a horrible religion that promotes division and oppression (to non-Muslims, women, etc.), but that doesn't mean I hate Muslims.  I dislike a lot of what America stands for, but have nothing against American people. 

Some areas of the country have been affected more than others by gypsies. So therefore the opinion in my area is quite negative towards gypsies. This is based their anti social behaviour and the consequences to the area during their frequent stays.

I probaby passed thousands of gypsies in my car or on the street. Some I've noticed , some I've not  but my view is formed around the ones I've had social interaction with. How many do i need to interact with to form an opinion ? Like i said its in the hundreds over the years ,is that enough ?

I'm not keen on anti social behaviour like anyone else , but the ones who partake in these activities are in a minority within their own group , that i have noticed.

Your point about Islam and America is what i am saying about gypsies.

I find this topic interesting including some of the views posted on here. Just because i am in the minority on here doesn't mean i can't air an opinion. A lot of posts on this forum include sarcasm and risque innuendo's which seems perfectly acceptable but when on this topic i say something which some members disagree with you all come out and form a gypsie Fan Club.

If we made this physical out in the playground of Blonde Head Quarters I'm sure your supporters will by far exceed mine. If we took it to the council estate 3 miles from where i live you and your gypsie Fan Club wouldn't stand a chance.

No, you're getting me wrong. I'm not questioning your right to post your opinions, I'm I'm questioning your reasoning for bothering with this thread if you don't want to influence anyone and refuse to be influenced yourself.

I really don't understand your fan club comments, are people not allowed to agree with some of the things I say, or disagree with you?

As for your "Take it out to the playground comments", If you were to give me a good hiding what would that prove?

Is that how you win your arguments?

I accept what you are saying , i understand now. My multiple responses were to balance out the debate , it seemed to be one sided. I can also understand if others think i was trying to influence them , which is not the case.

As for the "playground "comment it was maybe a unsuccessful attempt at an analogy. Succinctly , from the area i live i would have more supporter than yourself. Nothing actually to do with knocking your block off.

I find this topic interesting including some of the views posted on here. Just because i am in the minority on here doesn't mean i can't air an opinion. A lot of posts on this forum include sarcasm and risque innuendo's which seems perfectly acceptable but when on this topic i say something which some members disagree with you all come out and form a gypsie Fan Club.

If we made this physical out in the playground of Blonde Head Quarters I'm sure your supporters will by far exceed mine. If we took it to the council estate 3 miles from where i live you and your gypsie Fan Club wouldn't stand a chance.

Just when I thought your posts couldnt get worse...

Do you think the council estate folk 3 miles from where you live are intelligent upstanding people?

Think about what you've just typed there. Don't have an opinion either way about it. Lucky for you the Council Estate Fan Club can't afford computers.

I find this topic interesting including some of the views posted on here. Just because i am in the minority on here doesn't mean i can't air an opinion. A lot of posts on this forum include sarcasm and risque innuendo's which seems perfectly acceptable but when on this topic i say something which some members disagree with you all come out and form a gypsie Fan Club.

If we made this physical out in the playground of Blonde Head Quarters I'm sure your supporters will by far exceed mine. If we took it to the council estate 3 miles from where i live you and your gypsie Fan Club wouldn't stand a chance.

highmile makes a valid and well reasoned point, peoples peceptions of Gypsies are that the vast majority of them are wrong-uns. (Although any reasonably independent thought would lead to the conclusion that the percentage is actually about the same as it is for any other group).

Once upon a time in America, most decent, law-abiding citizens were convinced that Red Indians (Native Americans) were savages and wanton killers. The same goes for the Aborigines, who were hunted like animals by well educated, civilised, cultured people.

It's a fact that even today, in these enlightened times, any negative feeling or adverse racial stereotyping toward Gypsies is openly encouraged and amplified by the media, especially the red tops. As a consequence, people who have never met, or at best have had very little contact with Gypsies have already made up their minds.

Open prejudice toward Gypsies in this and other countries is the last bastion of tolerated racism, and it's effects can be and often are too horrible to contemplate, especially when you see it first hand on a regular basis.

I'm grateful to all those who have taken the time to contribute to this thread, whatever their stance.

Very well put and i agree with most of that. What i disagree with is where you suggest that the percentage of wrong-uns within the gypsie community would be the same as any other group.Theoretically it should be true but in my opinion it is miles away from the truth.

As you can gather i have made up my mind and will not be swayed otherwise , however it is not my intention to influence others towards my way of thinking or recruit an anti gypsie following. Just because i dislike gypsies doesn't mean i will act upon that and create any harm towards that group. Quite simply i just try to avoid gypsies at all times. This is only protect myself and those close to me from any harm /incident that may occur.

I'm not suggesting there are no wrong-uns within the non gypsie community because we all know there is , but an observation i've noticed is that some of them weild weapons. I can think of about 6 occassions where i've seen a gypsie handle a gun , not used to shoot anyboby but simply just for showing off to other gypsies. I recall eating in a takeaway once and these gypsies pulled one out at the table they were eating and started polishing it with some vinegar as if he was polishing a medal.What sort of behaviuor is that in society.Also when i was a kid  a gypsie kid hung around with us and we were all fascinated with the pistol he kept in his pants which he used to shoot rabbits and hedgehogs , is that normal ? Fair enough 6 occasions does not represent the whole gypsie community but outside of this community i cant ever recall seeing a gun outside of a controlled enviorment. I can also say the same about some of them wielding knives.

I know the PC brigade and gypsie Fan Club are loving my posts and think I'm a nutter but I'm being honest and in my opinion there are many many silent Blonde members out there who would agree with me.