He's taken a very weird line and I'm pretty interested in what he's doing it with; he also can certainly have us beat. If our image is indeed very bluffy and floaty then definitely raise the river but without that table image I would just go ahead and flat. He could also be inducing with this sizing, but then it's just a cooler if he's got a better 9 and we could even discount some of the higher as he might choose to steal preflop with them.

I don't like your turn line, you're never bluffing ever with that sizing and if your hand does scream a 9 it's because you screamed it to him. With no flush draw out there and not much worse that will pay you off for both a turn raise and a river bet you should just flat.

Always feel lost in hands like this, end up shrugging my shoulders and jamming and I somehow usually end up losing

He's getting 16-1 on a call so yeah I'd definitely expect him to call with flushes, which we can give a few of because me not 4betting the flop takes JJ/55 out of my range and makes it mostly hands like KK+fd or low wrap + fd + bare 5 or something.

We can massively discount QQ; JJ we can't ofc discount as his play is perfectly consistent with that but it's also consistent with J5 (with something extra) and I'm not quite sure how much J5 he has in his preflop range.

Nothing too wrong with any option imo, think without history jam > call > minraise

J5 has to pay off.

I'll bite, as this play is unfamiliar territory to me.

We had a wet flop, a wetter turn and a bricky river. What makes us think villain will fold and what range of hands will villain fold/call with?

I'm repping AAxx and sometimes KKxx pretty hard with preflop and would definitely jam those for value on the river when all the draws have missed and the turn card paired, and I could also feasibly have 9x myself.

Flop c-bet seems mandatory as his 3b pre is weighted towards higher cards; turn is most questionable but imo he needs 2p+ to jam.

Villain has shown himself to be fairly callstationy but this is his first donkbet. Figure he flats my raise pretty wide and when I'm behind I have a few good turns including some straight draws. At this point in the match he's 3bet a few times but not enough for me to consider dropping my raise otb frequency below 100%.

PokerStars Hand #98887551975:  Omaha Pot Limit ($1/$2 USD) - 2013/05/21 11:02:12 WET [2013/05/21 6:02:12 ET]
Table 'Ludovica' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 5: Black_Wooolf ($834.91 in chips)
Seat 9: wazzbot ($451.58 in chips)
wazzbot: posts small blind $1
Black_Wooolf: posts big blind $2
Black_Wooolf: posts the ante $0.40
wazzbot: posts the ante $0.40
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to wazzbot [ ]
wazzbot: raises $4.80 to $6.80
Black_Wooolf: calls $4.80
*** FLOP *** [ ]
Black_Wooolf: bets $10.42
wazzbot: raises $19.58 to $30
Black_Wooolf: raises $55.42 to $85.42
wazzbot: calls $55.42
*** TURN *** [ ] []
Black_Wooolf: bets $78
wazzbot: calls $78
*** RIVER *** [ ] []
Black_Wooolf: bets $221.48
wazzbot: raises $59.48 to $280.96 and is all-in

Not many hands have gone to s/d and this is fairly early on, villain has 3b a couple of times and I've folded or called, when I've called it hasn't gone to s/d.

This deep and against some 3betting so wide I like to have a fairly wide 4b range pre that includes most AAxx, good KKxx, other good broadway hands and some ds rundowns, so I don't pot it, also in the interests of giving me more maneuvrability otb.

Unsure as to which turns I barrel but felt my flop bet was +ev before I consider that, as he can only really c/r if he's got tptk+nfd or better and will be calling and allowing me to spike something or barrelling some turns.

PokerStars Hand #98887266431:  Omaha Pot Limit ($1/$2 USD) - 2013/05/21 10:49:11 WET [2013/05/21 5:49:11 ET]
Table 'Ludovica' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 5: Black_Wooolf ($507.15 in chips)
Seat 9: wazzbot ($492.35 in chips)
wazzbot: posts small blind $1
Black_Wooolf: posts big blind $2
Black_Wooolf: posts the ante $0.40
wazzbot: posts the ante $0.40
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to wazzbot [ ]
wazzbot: raises $4.80 to $6.80
Black_Wooolf: raises $14.40 to $21.20
wazzbot: raises $32.80 to $54
Black_Wooolf: calls $32.80
*** FLOP *** [ ]
Black_Wooolf: checks
wazzbot: bets $66
Black_Wooolf: calls $66
*** TURN *** [ ] []
Black_Wooolf: checks
wazzbot: bets $174
Black_Wooolf: calls $174
*** RIVER *** [ ] []
Black_Wooolf: checks
wazzbot: bets $197.95 and is all-in

I'm obviously a hard core nit.

I would fold almost everything worse than AT in a vacuum pretty much all the time. If I had specific info, obv that's different.

Lol nittaments

so against you it's a flat on the river

Definitely raising the flop; any particular reason you think his preflop range is so nutted? He's not folding AK/AQ and it's not like we get a huge amount of action from JJ/KK on most turns anyway; if he has a draw this is his opportunity to get it in, or maybe he just thinks you're FOS raising an ace-high board in a 3bet pot and crams it in with Qx or something.

As played I guess we gotta continue the trap on the turn. River I probably call ingame but I suppose it's a fold.

By checking turn we've taken Kx out of our range; we'd surely also bet QQ as Kx is never folding. So AT is the top of our range for getting to the river this way, let alone raising. At $50/1 zoom villain can have AK, KT, K9, probably all the way down to a select few combos of Kxs, or hell even AQ that doesn't believe our river raise (for aforementioned reasons) and thinks he's inducing with that sizing. We definitely get called by worse.

I guess it's ok; when he bets the turn he rarely has a set or two pair, so we're left with flushes only and most Ax clubs flat pre, even AQ clubs flats pre some of the time, so there's only one hand that calls you and most everything else should fold as we rep a boat pretty well.

I can't imagine jamming here, we don't have much fold equity and we have 3 outs usually and sometimes none, you'd expect him to c/r draws rather than bet-commit.

r/f anyone who 3b's small r/c any jam

this is possibly better than my plan just to jam

reason you're getting differing opinions imo is that it's very close, so as long as you don't fold, nothing's too horrible

all suited broadways
all pairs
good suited aces


what do you guys think?

Think with his 3betting frequency that high we can cram wider but I'm not sure how much wider than that we're opening, or at least we shouldn't be opening that wide if we've got a hero 3betting us every hand we open.