Going to the stadium on the day of an incident makes us an expert? Or chatting to someone who went? "I went (or knew someone who did) so I know its a fact" is what's being stated. By two liked and respected people.

I didn't go, but I'd encourage readers to follow the facts (and in the reports more recently coming out, they are facts) that the police and their cover up is the issue, the major issue and the only issue here. Being sat at the other end having been asked for spares by scousers who've had a few apparently means more to some.

If the posters in question can't see that their posts are insulting to families whove spent the best part of 3 decades showing that the blame does not sit with the fans, then I am shocked. I too think there are some lets downs ITT.

Giving an view, however politely and sincerely, that is clearly going to insult people is just bad form imo.

Oh and I've gotta stay true to myself by posting this, or somink.

I know the Independent panel report recently exonerated the fans

I know the Police behaviour and decisions on the day, and the subsequent cover up, was disgraceful. It is rightly and clearly the cause of the disaster, their actions on the day

There's no lack of respect from me towards the families who have campaigned long and hard since 1989

However the Taylor report stated that a minority of fan behaviour was an "exacerbating factor". The HIP certainly tells us that the causative effect of this was insignificant though.

Trying to find nuance on here around these issues without people getting upset looks understandably difficult.

   

THIS............



I am Shocked people still have this view that Liverpool fans to a degree were to Blame for the Deaths.

Quite Fucking Extraordinary !!!

Rich a poster has come on at around the time of the anniversary saying that the recent reports exonerating the fans doesn't sit comfortably with him. I guess that there's a debate here, (if we really must have it) but surely you can see this OP is going to offend and that defending it with "well I need to stay true to myself" after posting it around the anniversary. Just lol.

I have heard from HJC and HFSG, and I, like Kin, have spent a long time trying to understand what happened, and can only imagine what people have been through.

Hearing that your other half saw things that were an eye opener (may as well have stuck an exclamation in there and a wink), is that finding nuance?


Please don't now shift the blame on those of us now getting frustrated.

You are probably my favourite poster on blonde mate, but on this one we're miles apart.

I don't want to appear controversial having very rarely posted on Blonde but I have enjoyed
many hours reading threads on here.
I think some comments on here from bookie should have been deleted.
Imo His opening post wasn't out of line, I do think that his last few replies have
been disgraceful & from what I have read on Blonde appear to be totally
out of character from him
Obviously having been at the game he has a strong opinion on the subject.
I also believe that as a Moderator tightend has let himself down & I feel gave licence
to bookie to further the argument to apportion blame to supporters of Liverpool FC.
It is ridiculous to try and quantify how much ticketless fans, late arrivals & alcohol
consumption was to blame for the deaths of 96 innocent victims.
As I said earlier all these are part of a football supporters daily life.
I have been to games without a ticket, with my Sons who are 15 & 21 both have been going
to Leeds with me for years, my youngest lad supports Chelsea & we have been
loads of Northern clubs & got tickets at the ground, places like Blackburn, Bolton, Sunderland.
If I arrived at a game late due to traffic or a few pints In the pub I would not expect anyone to
point the finger of blame at me for the deaths of my fellow supporters.
You might say I've proved your argument as you did of trigg but I'd say this is the real world & you
need to step into it.  
No Liverpool fans were to blame, read the latest report if you don't believe me, it is quite conclusive.

This should not be a politically correct debate.
But...
There were Contributing factors, all of them happen rightly or wrongly at every big
Game I attend both pre and post 89.
Late arrivals
Drunk Fans
Ticketless fans
The above still happens today.
We cannot blame Liverpool fans, they acted no differently to any other clubs fans.
The WYP must take the majority of the blame as they did act differently to other forces that policed
Football matches in the late 80s.
What grinds me still to this day is the deceit & lies after the event to protect a few people.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-31302312

Very good peice. 

Sick.   

Great stuff pads. 

UL with the AQ v Q9. 

You should be very proud.  Hope you are   

Well done.

28 left in million 8. 
Win the fuckin lot matey. 
Nearly wet myself when you hit the 10 on the turn v JJ. 

Boom.  Glglgl. 

50 left & pads chip leader.  Vbol.   
What a life.   

WP young man.
Congrats. 

So if they are innocent, then publishing HHs showing they didn't collude definitely would repair their reputation.

This (publishing HH's that look understandable from a satellite strategy perspective) doesn't definitely prove the charge at hand one way or another. Other factors are at play are they not? Collusion Software detects long term playing histories and patterns therein for example?

Not expressing a view on this particular case, btw, as I don't know all the facts.

Would I trust IPoker's collusion software to differentiate between a satellite and a regular tournament?

Absolutely not.

They don't even turn chat off as the bubble looms ffs.


I presume you do not play ipoker/DTD sats then if you do not trust the collusion software.

We should all be happy & accept they have been caught & just hope they can prove there innocence to Ipoker/DTD.  

Everyone knows that this goes on, but this forum is not the place to prove anything.

Both players have pretty solids reputations from what I have read & they don't need defending or accusing here IMHO.  

Amazing number of entries for the GP.

DTD is getting things so right from what I can see.
Sixty quid to win 20k ish.

#pokerdyingaslowdeathnot#

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Hachem

Interesting read.
Average Joe, boy done good. 
11.7 million life winnings. mbn

People forget that whilst hachem is classed as a Pro, he wasn't when he won
& is really semi Pro now.

Decent guy that's represented your average poker player pretty well & someone who
who's words of advice on poker won't be the worst we could take on board imo.

Bresnan has played some nice shots.

Pieterson = Aweful shot.
Stokes = leave the freakin Wide ones. 
Prior = Disgusting shot, more appropriate for 20/20 cricket. 
Broad = Done by pace.

We are clearly not good enough at present & for me an informTrott is a massive loss. 

lol that joint team was an absolute joke, 

                schmeichal

g neviile      stam    Adams       Irwin           (would probably have A.cole in but he wasnt as developed at the time.)

beckham    scholes   Viera      Ronaldo

               henry   Cantona



This team would win the League every year.   
Where is Giggs, I'd have him at right back before ugly Neville. 

Massive call to leave Denis Irwin out of any team.
Has there ever been a better premier league full back ?

1/2 super deep game at dusk, image is pretty nitty. Playing ~800 at start of hand. Game is ridiculously splashy but mainly regs game is just playing big.

£5 straddle is on two limps and we have   on the button, we make it 25 (which now I think is too small) and 6 people call.

 

Checks to good reg in the CO who leads for 85 playing 480, I'm covered by rest of regs.

?

What if the player to your direct left raises it up to £223 & gets fold from the CO.
If you call the £85 do you ship it over the £223 or sigh fold.