Not sure I'd put a ten year difference between Spurs and Liverpool (new stadium will generate revenue for spurs that should close the gap on the top four on and off the pitch...in theory). 2030 probably isn't unfair, mind.

Do we set a date on Wenger moving on and a new manager actually spending money? If so, that's going to give them a better chance of winning the league, even if at the expense of all the things AW has built over his generation there.

Otherwise, I do agree. United more likely to win the league next than City IMO. Everyone's behind Chelsea.

New stadium obviously very relevant in terms of generating increased revenue but I can't help but feel the gap to United/City/Chelsea/Arsenal and to an extent Liverpool is already too wide and in absolute terms is getting wider each season - commercial income and Champions League TV/Prize  revenue - make  it practically impossible for you to compete on a sustained basis. You need a sugar daddy but unfortunately FFP has put paid to that.  

Revenue in Euros for y/e 2014:

United 518m
City  414m
Chelsea 387m
Arsenal 359m
Liverpool 305m
Spurs 215m

As a Liverpool fan if you were asked to set a coin flip over under line on the next year you win the epl where would you set it?

Not a Liverpool fan but it's an interesting exercise for all the big clubs:

Liverpool 2030
Man Utd 2018
Man City 2020
Arsenal 2022
Tottenham 2040
Chelsea (their next one after 2015) 2017

You have man city later than manure.  Interesting as Man City are 3/1 for next year and manure are 9/2.  The sheer size of manures commerical revenue is scary i suppose.

I think City are in for a rebuild, possibly a major one.

Aguero, Silva and maybe Hart are the only players that are worth a light in the current team.

Wouldn't be surprised to see Yaya, Dzeko, Milner, Sagna, Nasri, Navas, Kompany, Zabaleta and Demichealis all leave in the summer. At least 6 from those 9 anyways.

City most definitely in for a rebuild. Free of FFP sanction for 2015/2016 so a case of who they can get in when all the top 4 will be chasing the big names.

Jovetic/Milner - certainties for leaving. Milner is out of contract and turned down chance to re-sign several times

Yaya/Dzeko/Nasri/Kolorav  - very likely

Navas - unlikely

Kompany/Zabaleta - no chance

Sagna/Demichellis -  well Demichellis has signed a one year extension and Sagna I've no idea

As a Liverpool fan if you were asked to set a coin flip over under line on the next year you win the epl where would you set it?

Not a Liverpool fan but it's an interesting exercise for all the big clubs:

Liverpool 2030
Man Utd 2018
Man City 2020
Arsenal 2022
Tottenham 2040
Chelsea (their next one after 2015) 2017

Pretty good call based on the information available today. Suppose it very much depends on how much money they spend wisely over the summer and, in City's case, if they appoint a new manager as well.

The whole league is piss poor really.

The Chelsea team which is going to stroll to the title wouldn't have won any in the United glory years.

City and United are woeful this year.

If it wasn't for Young and Feilani you wouldn't be in the CL spots.

Hands up if you thought either of those two would get any games outside the Capital One Cup this season.

Can't quite work out how Barca, Real and Bayern have left English teams needed binoculars to see them in the distance, they are so far ahead.

Agree the league has been poor this season and certainly less compelling than the close title races of 2014 City/Liverpool/Chelsea and 2012 City/United.

The must successful year for United from their "glory years" was 1999 and I'd take the view this Chelsea team is far stronger. Using 1999 as an example United didn't particularly dominate - they only won 22 of their 38 league games finishing on 79 points and only won 2 of their 6 Champions League group games.

Sure, Chelsea haven't had  a challenge since City's form spiralled after being joint top on New Year's day. This Chelsea, tho, are a ridiculously difficult team to beat - only 3 defeats all season including Champions League. Of those defeats only 2 in the league so far and if they remain unbeaten it 3rd best performances in terms of losses in PL history after the Invincibles and their own record in 2005 when they only lost 1.

The Barca/Real/bayern conundrum is pretty straightforward really - Ronaldo, Suarez, Bale, Messi, Robben etc etc. Stick those players in the top PL sides and lets see how we get on in Europe then.

Agree with above - Northern Quarter is spot on but keep well clear of Ancoats/Islington.

Loads of places going into Salford over the river around Blackfriars St. which I would have thought are good - not the bad part of Salford.

I visit family at a place called Great Northern Tower (loads of appartments) on Watson St in the heart of Manchester  - a brilliant location. Only a minute away from 235 Casino as well

Although you say you want very urban, Didsbury is a great location and will probably feel urban compared to where you are and easy transport links (Metro/bus) to City Centre. West Didsbury really good nowadays as well.

City pulling back an 8 point lead with 6 games to go, having the title in their own hands, nearly throwing it away and culminating in the ridiculous Holywood Aguero moment...

Still chance it will be bettered this season. Wenger beats his nemesis  today and then Arsenal go on to win their 5 remaining games,  Chelsea finish with W 2 D 2 L 1 and Arsenal win the league on goal difference after Arsenal score to win  and Chelsea concede both in injury time in the last game of the season.

[I don't care about poker awards, pocket fives, gpi or anything else. I've let that stuff control my ego way too much over the last 12 months, I just want to look back and tell myself "good job man, wp"]

Tweet I just posted (@plenopads)

@plenopads: Didn't get invited to the European poker awards. Studied turbos for 3 hours then won the 215t for 10kish #notintheclique #justice #fuckem


Had a pretty great day. Woke up late. Went for dinner and coronas with some friends and then played table tennis before getting a massage. Came back and studied with the guys I stake and the other coaches and had lots of really interesting spots. I think we approach turbos differently to most regs. Have been doing pretty well recently in turbos. Started the grind and final tabled 5 tournaments including a win in the 215t for a nice score.

Tomorrow is the 10k which should be good. Have one swap % left in the main event (fedor) so hoping he takes it down. He's probably the best player left and maybe the best player who started!

I was kinda joking about the clique. Pokernews usually know everybody. Like some random qualifier raises and then will find his name. There was a huge hand yesterday which I forgot to report where I folded QQ pre flop and they called me "a player" I don't mind at all just find it funny that I don't get any recognition for the last 1 year of online poker where I've played as much as any other european player online. I'd actually like to be a an ambassador for poker. I really love this game and want it to prosper just things like not winning anything at British Poker Awards, not being invited to these European ones, pokernews not knowing who I am and lots of other really small things piss me off even though they really shouldn't. This obviously sounds really arrogant not meaning it to be but just as usual I prefer to say what I'm actually thinking.

Funny story about this actually this week whenever I've played everybody has randonly assumed that I'm Felix Stephenson (2nd in main event this year) some italian guy was texting my friend saying "just moved to table with Felix Stephenson remember him from the final table he was awful. maybe 6-7 others said the same thing too. Not sure if that's who people thought I was in the 25k. I mean maybe it's better to be undercover and unknown after all!

Let it go man. Stick to what you said only a week or so ago:

I am anything from the finished product, I'm way, way off, but I have so much desire to be number 1 in my own rankings for both live and online tournaments this time next year. I don't care about poker awards, pocket fives, gpi or anything else. I've let that stuff control my ego way too much over the last 12 months, I just want to look back and tell myself "good job man, wp"

So, if you honestly coming 7th is better than 5th, why don't teams turn down the chance to play in the Europa League?

While I'm at it, why don't the managers who moan about too much football, turn down the chance to play in the League Cup or even the FA Cup?

In 2013 there was a chance Liverpool would get a "Fair Play" place in the Europa League and Liverpool announced in advance of knowing if they had a place that they would turn it down.  There again it did involve the early qualifying rounds in July which would have interfered with pre-season tours and general preparation for the season. But I agree it is madness to want to finish 7th rather than 5th.
 However, if Rogers was hypothetically sacked at the end of this season any new manager would most definitely prefer them to have finished 7th rather than 5th because ultimately his main target is going to be Champions League qualification and the EL is a huge distraction for the reasons already documented on the thread.

Any manager who turned down the chance to play in the League Cup or FA Cup wouldn't be popular with the majority of the supporter base. However many effectively don't take domestic cups seriously - particularly in the early stages. That applies to clubs at both ends of the table.

these days with chelsea and man c throwing middle eastern and russian multi millions at winning the league teams a little below that such as liverpool, arsenal etc (even with funding from henry, kroenke etc, they are not going to spend on the level of abramovich and qatar) should priortise winning fa cup, league cup and europa cup

finishing 3rd in the premier league is the equivalent of winning it 15 years ago before the whale owners arrived

don't think fans have ever adjusted to this properly

liverpool should prioritise the euorpa, and getting into it. talk of preferring to finish7th is ridiculous

Tighty, I've seen you refer to Qatar money before in connection to City. Just for the record it is Abu Dhabi/UAE money and not Qatar. There are one or two tensions there so it's a bit like saying Celtic are an English  club

[Europa League]

these days with chelsea and man c throwing middle eastern and russian multi millions at winning the league teams a little below that such as liverpool, arsenal etc (even with funding from henry, kroenke etc, they are not going to spend on the level of abramovich and qatar) should priortise winning fa cup, league cup and europa cup

finishing 3rd in the premier league is the equivalent of winning it 15 years ago before the whale owners arrived

don't think fans have ever adjusted to this properly

liverpool should prioritise the euorpa, and getting into it. talk of preferring to finish7th is ridiculous

Europa League
First qualifying round: €120,000
Second qualifying round: €130,000
Third qualifying round: €140,000
Play-off round elimination: €150,000
Base fee for group stage: €1,300,000
Group match victory: €200,000
Group match draw: €100,000
Group winners: €400,000
Group runners-up: €200,000
Round of 32: €200,000
Round of 16: €350,000
Quarter-finals: €450,000
Semi-finals: €1,000,000
Losing finalist: €2,500,000
Winners: €5,000,000

Champions League
Playoffs: €2,100,000
Base fee for group stage: €8,600,000
Group match victory: €1,000,000
Group match draw: €500,000
Round of 16: €3,500,000
Quarter-finals: €3,900,000
Semi-finals: €4,900,000
Losing finalist: €6,500,000
Winning the Final: €10,500,000

If you finish seventh, you don't have to spend huge sums travelling around eastern Europe to play in substandard venues in hard to reach places. Instead, you can play 10 games fewer for the chance to finish fourth (which is entirely possible for United, Liverpool and Spurs - assuming Chelsea, Arsenal and Citeh get the top three) and lock up the same money as the runner up in the Europa for the CL playoffs (assuming at least an extra 400k in gate receipts and revenue given it's two legs).

No brainer for me. The prestige went when they allowed four teams in.

The figures above, whilst correct, are for participation and performance only and don't take the TV Pool into consideration.

In 2013/2014 Spurs were the top English earner from the Euro League with their last 16 place and a grand total of $5.9million including €2.5million from the TV pool.
Meanwhile,  United were the top English earner from the Champions League after reaching the last 8 and a total earn of €44.8 million including €23.8million from the TV pool.

The world has gone mental.

City got £96.6 million for 2013/2014 and Liverpool £97.60 million (they were on TV more). Bottom team now in line for MORE than both.

FFP likely to become an irrelvance for English teams, Mike Ashley will be smiling, Stoke will move up 4 or 5 places in the Deloitte Money League and become c15th wealthiest team in the world and supporters can look forward to a reduction in ticket prices. Of course the last point isn't going to happen really...

Course it will happen.  Stoke's owner has frozen ticket prices for years (not including inflation so effectively ticket prices fall in real terms every year).  As TV revenue makes up a bigger and bigger % of the teams turnover every year ticket prices will be less and less relevant to their financial strength.

I meant supporters in general where ticket  price inflation for Premier League clubs has totally outstripped RPI/CPI and the impact of the current TV deal (from 2013/2014) has made little difference overall.

The world has gone mental.

City got £96.6 million for 2013/2014 and Liverpool £97.60 million (they were on TV more). Bottom team now in line for MORE than both.

FFP likely to become an irrelvance for English teams, Mike Ashley will be smiling, Stoke will move up 4 or 5 places in the Deloitte Money League and become c15th wealthiest team in the world and supporters can look forward to a reduction in ticket prices. Of course the last point isn't going to happen really...

Texaco Cup?

I would have said the City player in the background was Neil Young not Doyle.

I'm going for a European Cup Winners Cup game even if it was played during the day.

A brilliant picture - I love it.

Liverpool went on to win the league again in 78/79 but were knocked out of the European Cup in the 1st round by Forest. Those were the days!

I don't think the facts in the quote are entirely accurate. Liverpool played a league game on 26/12/1978 and next played a league game on 03/02/1979. They did play some FA Cup games in Jan 1979 tho.

I have to own up about working out Bangor. There is an advertising hoarding in the picture for the Tyn Lon Garage which is still in existence and  just over the water in Anglesy