Just seems every exit peps had post Barca has been preceded by a somewhat radical change in personal and tactics

"I'll drop the DMs that have played in all but one game, play my best midfielder as a false nine, my top goal scorer as my deepest midfielder, move my best young player to accomadate a player who hasn't played first choice all season, invert my left back, yada yada yada, all in the final and most important game of the season"

I've seen some of the city Twitter tactics bros screencap + MSpaint analysis that say it wouldn't have made a difference. We will never know. We do know what he tried failed.

In  the domestic league where he pits his wits against thinkers like Steve Bruce and the budgets of Brighton and palace, and the carabou cup where he is the only manager above Wayne Rooney in the pyramid to field a full strength side he has been dominant. And the same is true of every club he's managed. He has success in line with the financial dominace of the team's he manages. City, Bayern and Barca all had success pre pep. The later two success - and CL trophies - post his leaving. City will do just fine after he has gone too.

But when he comes up against his peers in terms of coaches and budgets in the knock out stages of european competition - the footballing equivalent of slow time control chess - his attempts at deviations from the formations that blow Everton and villa away fall flat.

Great manager, but he's not unique in the success he has had, nor do I think he is an outlier amongst his present day peers, much less in a historical context.

In Europe, quite the opposite.

Lol - he is a bloody genius man

True, the financially dominant teams will (almost) always prevail - PSG, Bayern, Juventus - but at least the PL had  a big 6 + Leicester. Now more like a Big 4 and the PL winner will likely  be from City, Chelsea, United or Liverpool. The first 3 have broadly spent the same in terms of transfers and wages over the last 5 or 6 seasons (look at the accounts or Swiss Ramble analysis and not net spend crap on transfermrkt) and Liverpool less but still the 5th or 6th highest revenue in  European football. England is not France, Germany or Italy and I give far more credit to Pep than you.

Even in the League Cup there has been at least 1 victory in every run against another financially dominant side - United away in the last 2 semi-finals and Chelsea in the final before - and always they have played full strength sides.

"Slow time control chess" - I like that with reference to the 2 legged knock-out ties. Since the debacle against Liverpool 3 years ago, City's record in the 2 legged knock-out ties and 12 matches is as follows:

WW LW WW WW WW WW   - Schalke, Spurs, Real Madrid, Gladbach, Dortmund and PSG. Plenty of tactical deviations in that lot as well. Not bad eh? And the only real screw up was the 0-1 away at Spurs when Pep was super defensive but overall in the tie very unlucky not to get through. Maybe it's the one-off bullet chess games he has a problem with based on a sample size of 2.

Pep trying hard to be the man.

Pulled the equivalent of tuchel leaving out kante to prove what a galaxy brain looks like

Well, that's the  popular narrative. The more in depth tactical analysis pieces I've read suggest it probably wouldn't have made a difference if Dinho/Rhodri start (as expected) for Sterling.
Personally, I think Pep was more culpable last year against Lyons. This game less so.

The Chelsea back 7 is so good (8 if we count Kante as 2. God, he is so good...)  Not just defensively but for playing out from the back either short or long - always the spare man and always very difficult to press high against  and leaves the inevitable space at the back with City's high line.

Pep can go for a defensive option against that very easily ( 3 at the back for example but we rarely play it) but opts for the most offensive option to try and get the ever so important 1st goal.
Chelsea are a nightmare to play against for any side with a 1 goal lead - like prime Atletico Madrid - and have only conceded 3 I think since Tuchel's arrival when they've scored first and 2 of those were when they were 2+ goals ahead.
Likewise, if City do get the 1st goal, the shape changes immediately and Chelsea are an easier opponent to defend against than PSG or Dortmund which we did very well.

But Chelsea were better at 0-0 and could have scored earlier but even then City had 2/3 moments which could have given us the 1st goal and a different game. Fine lines. Likewise the KDB injury didn't help for the last 30 minutes or so. He was pretty much tied up for the first 60 but the end state of that game was perfect for his quality.

Bottom line. Chelsea deserved winners.

Over the disappointment now but still a great day but  I could have done without the long wait for the  coach/flight after the match. Close to 28 hours without sleep doesn't compare to 1st night Vegas but I'm too old now

Bloody hell, was my last post on here really February 2020?!
Not much has happened since then anyway, football or otherwise.

On the 14.55 Luton to Porto tomorrow.

Come on City.

Enjoy sir.
The logistics and bloody hoops to jump through for what should be a straightforward trip have been stressful to say the least.  All worth it in the end. Hopefully

Been great watching City this year, hope you abso crush in the final and have a great trip.

Cheers sir. Looking forward to this..

Welcome back.

Thank you

I woulda posted about this whole UEFA shite much earlier but been on holiday. City sound very bullish about it all, will have the worlds best lawyers on the case, and imagine how many skeletons there are in UEFAs closet....

From what I understand the club are very well prepared for this, and to paraphrase the chairman, lets spend £50m suing UEFA for the next 10 years.

Seems a lifetime ago. The collective media reporting of the CAS hearing and the inability to even accurately transcribe the events correctly when all facts were  laid out in public  legal documents was simply disgusting.
Right result at CAS though.

This thread hasn't had any love for a while. So...

Very  happy to get lucky in the ballot and returning to the Etihad later for a live football match and witness first hand the best team in world football at the moment. Throw in a trophy lift, a Sergio farewell and seeing the FWA Player of the Year in the flesh for the first time (if he plays) and life is good. God, I've missed live football.

It got better at 9.15 yesterday morning after a sweat for  Champions League Final tickets..  Due the small allocation it was touch and go  it would sell out before getting to our points level. Throw in the free flight (out Saturday morning and back in the early hours after the match) and  transfers courtesy of Sheikh Mansour and the job's a good one for a dream day for the cost of a £150 ticket and a Covid test.  My lad, in his words, is absolutely buzzing. He was already booked for a 3 day trip and was going to Porto anyway with or without a ticket and sticking with his plans.

Player of the year? Dias deserved winner IMO. Difficult to choose from City players this season but in order for me - Dias, Gundogan, Foden, Mahrez, Stones.  I've seen the other posts and that KDB is favourite for the PFA POTY. He remains the best player but not played enough.

Kane to City? I hope not. I'm probably in a minority here but it would makes us too strong. Don't want to turn into Bayern Munich.

I’ll ignore the hyperbole and just focus on wishing you a great and safe trip to Portugal.
Both European trophies in the same Greater Metropolitan Area? Andy Burnham will no doubt claim the credit😁
You can have Kane if we can have Haaland and Sancho.

Haha

Hyperbole? Nah...

Cheers and thks anyway and GL in the losers cup final.

See City and United's prices to win in 90 mins are broadly the same. Likewise in the winner owner market. A bit surprised with that and thought United would be shorter..

Welcome back.

Thank you

I woulda posted about this whole UEFA shite much earlier but been on holiday. City sound very bullish about it all, will have the worlds best lawyers on the case, and imagine how many skeletons there are in UEFAs closet....

From what I understand the club are very well prepared for this, and to paraphrase the chairman, lets spend £50m suing UEFA for the next 10 years.

Seems a lifetime ago. The collective media reporting of the CAS hearing and the inability to even accurately transcribe the events correctly when all facts were  laid out in public  legal documents was simply disgusting.
Right result at CAS though.

This thread hasn't had any love for a while. So...

Very  happy to get lucky in the ballot and returning to the Etihad later for a live football match and witness first hand the best team in world football at the moment. Throw in a trophy lift, a Sergio farewell and seeing the FWA Player of the Year in the flesh for the first time (if he plays) and life is good. God, I've missed live football.

It got better at 9.15 yesterday morning after a sweat for  Champions League Final tickets..  Due the small allocation it was touch and go  it would sell out before getting to our points level. Throw in the free flight (out Saturday morning and back in the early hours after the match) and  transfers courtesy of Sheikh Mansour and the job's a good one for a dream day for the cost of a £150 ticket and a Covid test.  My lad, in his words, is absolutely buzzing. He was already booked for a 3 day trip and was going to Porto anyway with or without a ticket and sticking with his plans.

Player of the year? Dias deserved winner IMO. Difficult to choose from City players this season but in order for me - Dias, Gundogan, Foden, Mahrez, Stones.  I've seen the other posts and that KDB is favourite for the PFA POTY. He remains the best player but not played enough.

Kane to City? I hope not. I'm probably in a minority here but it would makes us too strong. Don't want to turn into Bayern Munich.

Could you imagine if betting companies had to answer to their 'fans' ie customers who lose and donate to them (which should happen in 99% of punters) in business why do 'fans' even have a say in how businesses that they have no ownership % at all think they have a say?   The whole thing has always amazed me but post covid the fans have even less say as owners have realised 'old school' fans who attend games don't really make much difference to the modern day business model.   It is all tv stream revenue.

I guess it’s twofold.

If Paddy Power piss off a punter they can bet with other bookies. Fans don’t change clubs.

And I suppose it’s a community thing. Clubs make up part of the fabric of our communities and history, more than just a business.   No one gives a shit about a bookie.

Comparing apples and pears.

'fans' do change clubs and i would guess the majority of 'fans' who pay the bills via tv don't have a club they are just casual especially outside of the uk where the revenue is really coming from nowadays.  If it was all about UK 'lolloyalfan' revenue they would have been on £250k a week when i was a kid.   Its the casual non club fans who drive the marginal revenue globally not domestically.   Football like all major sports is a global business who don'tt need hardcore fans in the stadium.   They don't make them money these types as much as these hard core fans ego think they are important they really aren't in 2021.   Covid has shown the owners that the game can easily operate without the 10% hardcore fan whatever these deluded fans think EPL wise with tv money.   Outside of the EPL football is fucked without turnstile fans.

LOL

Assuming "hard core" is another expression for fans who attend matches:

Premier big boys need matchday income - Arsenal it's about 25% of turnover

Premier smaller clubs - yes they could budget on TV income. Bottom premier about £100mil TV revenue compared to say Leeds in 18/19 when just £9million

Championship and below (except the parachuters) and all the way down the pyramid are dependant on matchday income.

The Premier League TV deal for 18/19 was split 65% from domestic rights and 35% from international deals.

COVID has obviously screwed up most business models - fans needed in stadiums for most.

Fans in stadiums will always be important for the TV backdrop.

Match day attendance is definitely an integral part of football club finances - but I don't think the fan's outrage has anything to do with the Super League reversal (or basically any decision major clubs make).

My immediate assumption was that the clubs involved got advice or information which confirmed that the various governing bodies definitely could actually kick them out or at least significantly penalise them (particularly the European tournaments and the Premier League).

Football clubs will make decisions based on what's good for them - usually their finances; but it sounds good if they make a statement that it was about the fans particularly if it involved reversing a previous decision.

Hardcore fans are always going to be a reliable source of income, clubs can do what they were always goinig to do all along and if it happens to be what the fans want then they can pretend that it was based on them otherwise they just ride it out until the fans get over it.

Broadly agree with the fan outrage comment but it does play a part.
Bigger consideration for the clubs is threat of government intervention, UEFA hard ball, player/staff reaction, stakeholders, sponsors etc.
If this had gone further down the line almost certainly there would be a drop-off in  ST renewals which directly impacts the bottom line.

Fan protests do work sometimes - recent ones involving Liverpool fans forcing u-turns against ticket price hikes, the introduction of furlough and (partially) project big picture. In all 3 cases the owner said he was sorry and would do better. And now he's apologised again!

But ultimately billionaire owners are only interested in the ££££.

And why have they all made stonking losses in the last 18 months with no fans in the grounds?!

 I don't think Arb thought it through fully 

Could you imagine if betting companies had to answer to their 'fans' ie customers who lose and donate to them (which should happen in 99% of punters) in business why do 'fans' even have a say in how businesses that they have no ownership % at all think they have a say?   The whole thing has always amazed me but post covid the fans have even less say as owners have realised 'old school' fans who attend games don't really make much difference to the modern day business model.   It is all tv stream revenue.

I guess it’s twofold.

If Paddy Power piss off a punter they can bet with other bookies. Fans don’t change clubs.

And I suppose it’s a community thing. Clubs make up part of the fabric of our communities and history, more than just a business.   No one gives a shit about a bookie.

Comparing apples and pears.

'fans' do change clubs and i would guess the majority of 'fans' who pay the bills via tv don't have a club they are just casual especially outside of the uk where the revenue is really coming from nowadays.  If it was all about UK 'lolloyalfan' revenue they would have been on £250k a week when i was a kid.   Its the casual non club fans who drive the marginal revenue globally not domestically.   Football like all major sports is a global business who don'tt need hardcore fans in the stadium.   They don't make them money these types as much as these hard core fans ego think they are important they really aren't in 2021.   Covid has shown the owners that the game can easily operate without the 10% hardcore fan whatever these deluded fans think EPL wise with tv money.   Outside of the EPL football is fucked without turnstile fans.

LOL

Assuming "hard core" is another expression for fans who attend matches:

Premier big boys need matchday income - Arsenal it's about 25% of turnover

Premier smaller clubs - yes they could budget on TV income. Bottom premier about £100mil TV revenue compared to say Leeds in 18/19 when just £9million

Championship and below (except the parachuters) and all the way down the pyramid are dependant on matchday income.

The Premier League TV deal for 18/19 was split 65% from domestic rights and 35% from international deals.

COVID has obviously screwed up most business models - fans needed in stadiums for most.

Fans in stadiums will always be important for the TV backdrop.

City out as well. Announced broadly the same time so a co-ordinated effort.

Disgusted with the City owners about this as are almost City fans on teddy's favourite City forum. Surprised as well - just didn't expect them to join-in with the same group who have worked against us for so long..

Immediate expulsion from the Champions League/Euro League is of course appropriate. Very disappointed about that and particularly being denied seeing a young Foden (has the highest ceiling of any footballer I've seen at City) on the biggest stage.

I have a ticket for the LC final on Sunday but binning that now. It just seems irrelevant. And I won't have to go through the OTT COVID protocols

For the first time ever I feel like sacking off football completely at a time I was so looking forward to getting back to live football. We'll see. No doubt I'll change my mind because it is so ingrained in what I've done for the last 50 years.

Excuse my French but fuck Manchester United.

Let’s not make this tribal. It’s way too important for that. Don’t that you’ll find any United, LFC, Spurs, Arsenal** or Chelsea fans in favour of this greed-driven abomination.

I feel great sympathy for the players and coaching staff of both my team and yours. They have had this situation foisted upon them. Your title, our valiant second place (with much reduced gap), the European runs could all just be taken away from them.

Excuse my French, but Fuck Woodward, Glaer, Henry, Kroenke, Sheikh Mansour, Abramovich, Levy and all the fucking bankers and chancers that are involved.



**Some Arsenal fans may appreciate the chance of European involvement given their current plight.

I'm not making it tribal and I agree with everything you say.

But fuck United. Whenever the shit goes down there they are at the front of the queue.
Everyone is culpable but this doesn't happen without United getting into bed with Perez and Agnelli.

Disgusted with the City owners about this as are almost City fans on teddy's favourite City forum. Surprised as well - just didn't expect them to join-in with the same group who have worked against us for so long..

Immediate expulsion from the Champions League/Euro League is of course appropriate. Very disappointed about that and particularly being denied seeing a young Foden (has the highest ceiling of any footballer I've seen at City) on the biggest stage.

I have a ticket for the LC final on Sunday but binning that now. It just seems irrelevant. And I won't have to go through the OTT COVID protocols

For the first time ever I feel like sacking off football completely at a time I was so looking forward to getting back to live football. We'll see. No doubt I'll change my mind because it is so ingrained in what I've done for the last 50 years.

Excuse my French but fuck Manchester United.

[Wembley at the 1999 second division playoff final - Gillingham vs Man City. Vividly remember the City equaliser (we were Gillingham). 2-0 up with under 2 minutes to play, we lost on pens and Tony Pulis was sacked.]

I was 8 when Mikka Hakkinen winning the F1 title in 1998. Probably still the best looking F1 car going.


Wembley at the 1999 second division playoff final - Gillingham vs Man City. Vividly remember the City equaliser (we were Gillingham). 2-0 up with under 2 minutes to play, we lost on pens and Tony Pulis was sacked.




Bit later but it was the first time I'd ever seen cricket - India tour of England in 2002 which was on channel 4. I watched every day, the graphics had a horrific orange and blue colour scheme and Tendulkar terrorised everyone IIRC

Ha - presumably you were too young to be too emotionally scarred by that....

Still in my top 5 sporting days that one for the range of emotion. Totally down and out when the 2nd Gillingham goal went in to the euphoria with the late, late goals and the penalty shoot out.
Travelled down to Wembley that day on a 1st Class Charter with silver service and too much lubrication. Arriving back went straight to a party to be goaded by United fans (they had won the Champions League final and completed the treble a few days earlier) before being joined by later arriving louder and more drunken City fans than me. Turned into WW3 and my wife  didn't talk me for 2 weeks. The beginning of the end for that marriage and a beginning of a new start for City.

What's Walker got to do with anything? He's an idiot.
Meanwhile, the PE teacher is presented as some nice guy when really deep down he is a ****.

Anyway, I was generally saying nice things about United 

Just seen Fernandes has won Player of the Month for the 4th time.

Made me smile.

He joins this group of PL greats who have also won it 4 times:
Dennis Bergkamp
Thierry Henry
Frank Lampard
Cristiano Ronaldo
Paul Scholes
Alan Shearer[d]
Jamie Vardy

Only these ahead of him:

Rooney 5
RVP 5
Gerrard 6
Kane 6
Aguero7
 

And looking at those players you'll understand why it made me smile.

Bruno has been a massive influence, but four time player of the month in basically one season is probably OTT. I’m surprised at the absentees from the list. No KdB, no VvD, no Yaya, no Keane, no David Silva, no Vierra. But they had a lot more competition in their prime.

Who are you cheering for tomorrow?

KDB 0
Yaya 0
Silva 1
VVD 1
Keane 2
Vierra 0

Fernandes 4  lol

-----------------

Draw>United win>Liverpool win


Both United & Liverpool dropping 2 points is best. If we go on to beat Palace we'll be 1 point ahead of Liverpool with game in hand and 2 points behind you with the same game in hand.  So, poll position for top spot as we approach the half way spot of the season.

I agree with you on the player of the month stuff, but apparently the only players in Europe with more ‘goal involvements’ than Bruno in the period since he arrived in the EPL are CR7, Messi, and Lewandowski...

Fun stat if true.
27G+17A in 3854mins  is impressive.  15 penalties included in the 27 goals distorts the numbers somewhat.    Salah was at 43G + 15A in 17/18. with just the 1 pen.

Don't want to dismiss his influence though. Obviously a fantastic player and massively impactful for you so can totally understand the love-in. You've needed it for while.

What's Walker got to do with anything? He's an idiot.
Meanwhile, the PE teacher is presented as some nice guy when really deep down he is a ****.

Anyway, I was generally saying nice things about United 

Just seen Fernandes has won Player of the Month for the 4th time.

Made me smile.

He joins this group of PL greats who have also won it 4 times:
Dennis Bergkamp
Thierry Henry
Frank Lampard
Cristiano Ronaldo
Paul Scholes
Alan Shearer[d]
Jamie Vardy

Only these ahead of him:

Rooney 5
RVP 5
Gerrard 6
Kane 6
Aguero7
 

And looking at those players you'll understand why it made me smile.

Bruno has been a massive influence, but four time player of the month in basically one season is probably OTT. I’m surprised at the absentees from the list. No KdB, no VvD, no Yaya, no Keane, no David Silva, no Vierra. But they had a lot more competition in their prime.

Who are you cheering for tomorrow?

KDB 0
Yaya 0
Silva 1
VVD 1
Keane 2
Vierra 0

Fernandes 4  lol

-----------------

Draw>United win>Liverpool win


Both United & Liverpool dropping 2 points is best. If we go on to beat Palace we'll be 1 point ahead of Liverpool with game in hand and 2 points behind you with the same game in hand.  So, poll position for top spot as we approach the half way spot of the season.