[What would you say the normal percentage of time someone final table's and then go on to finish in the top 3? 33% based on 9 handed final table? so based of making the final table 20% of the time your going to make the top 3 6% of the time.]

What makes you think he is a winning player?

Why can he not bankroll himself from his regular job?

I doubt his figure is based on anything too solid and I doubt that for someone who this is a new experience for should be taking on such a deal. The hours involved, emotional discipline needed and finding a plus ev schedule, especially for him who will be providing 100% of the time and be receiving less than a 100% of the money in a live environment which whilst having lower variance involves more costs and more pitfalls of being in a casino. This is a really bad idea. To play live tournaments for a living you honestly need to be playing with an average buyin of probably £1k or higher and even then it is heavily dependent on your overall expenses. I don't think it is worthwhile travelling to a GPS for over £80 worth of expenses and I'd imagine my roi is higher than the potential horse.  


Just buying x% of his action and not committing him to a deal with makeup seems to make much more sense for both parties.

why would you have to play 1k buy ins to play for a living? It all depends on how much money you require to make a living rather than just trying to win a small to medium house.

GPS in Birmingham. £20 petrol, £20 food (seems low, 2x meal 1x brekkie) £50 hotel £90 in expenses. 50% roi on 440 = 220 so your ev is £130 over roughly 6 hours playing time for an hourly of £20 but when you include getting to and from the venue being free for all day one and day two etc your hourly is just a pittance and your variance is insane.

If your ABI is £50 and your roi is 100% you need an average playing time of ~5 hours to be worthwhile and no expenses at all which just isn't possible.

I understand what you are saying, and keeping expenses to a min to maximize your ROI. But it also depends on other factors, such as the time period/number of tournaments which you take into account. You cant just pluck a figure of 50% ROI as an average figure. An average prize pool for the an ABI of £50 will normally be around the 5K mark with about 1600 up top, you could potentially win 31 times your buy in for a much higher ROI of 50, and depending on your skill level finish in the top 3 positions about 1/5 of the time. A know a few people who achieve this type of return in local comps in such as Luton G casino.

Having an average hour rate of £20 quid playing 40 hours a week 48 weeks of the year, your making 800 quid a week, £41,600 a year tax free......    

20% of the time you think you will finish in the top 3 in a 100 runner 1 day live turbo donkfest?  Are you serious?  You talk of plucking figures out of the air where do you get this 20% figure from and the £20 average hourly rate (this was mentioned by the previous poster on a £440 buy in comp where said player has a 50% roi in these types of games)?  Have you factored in rake for these type of comps which will be 10% min more likely 15-20% on the buy in.  Expenses getting to and from the venue, travel time getting to and from the venue?  A weekly or twice weekly tip for the dealers as you plan to finish top 3 at least once a week?

I trying to think of something constructive to say in response..... If you cant final table 20% of the time (top 3 as stated above) then you shouldn't be considering being a MTT Pro. We are not talking about a "Fun"player" who will final table once in a blue moon.

And yes an Average hourly rate of £20 would indeed include expenses.

How is final tabling a 100 runner event finishing in the top 3? (you state £5k prizepools with abi of £50) so it's fair to assume there is 100 runners in these events.  I assume FT will have 10 players on it.  So you have gone from finishing in the top 3% of an mtt to the top 10% of an mtt 20% of the time.  Big difference.

Run me through the maths of where you get a £20 hourly rate AFTER expenses from playing £50 100 runner live mtts if you wouldn't mind?

I have changed the goal posts in regards to finishing top 3 to final table I'll give you that one. What would you say the normal percentage of time someone final table's and then go on to finish in the top 3? 33% based on 9 handed final table? so based of making the final table 20% of the time your going to make the top 3 6% of the time. I'll run the numbers later on today and see what it pops out as an hourly rate.

The £20 an hour was an example from the post I replied to. I simple put that figure in a 40 hour week..... It would all depend on how far you live from the venue ect ect.

Run those numbers, & you'll not cover the buy-ins for the 100 MTT's, or at best only cover them marginally.

Turn the numbers upside down.

Fail to cash 80% of the time.

Cash small (4th - 10th) 14% of the time.

Cash top 3 6% of the time. Assume an average of 2nd place. 100 runners comp, £55 Buy-In, £5,000 Prize Poool, what would 2nd pay, £800? 6 x £800 = £4,800. Our Buy-Ins cost us £5,500.

We have not considered exs yet.

We must be misunderstanding each other, it's simply not possible to "make a living" on those numbers, even if they could be achieved.

How do you define "make a living"? £200 per week? How many Live MTT's per week do we need to play, & finish Top 3, to end up with £200 per week profit AFTER exs? That's EVERY week, not some weeks.

2 blank weeks - perfectly normal - & now we need to make £600 this week.

You are perfectly right Sir, in my stupidity I was assuming we are making 20 quid an hour as per the post I responded to originally. Lesson learned. If you run it over a course of 100 MTT you would indeed be making a loss.

What makes you think he is a winning player?

Why can he not bankroll himself from his regular job?

I doubt his figure is based on anything too solid and I doubt that for someone who this is a new experience for should be taking on such a deal. The hours involved, emotional discipline needed and finding a plus ev schedule, especially for him who will be providing 100% of the time and be receiving less than a 100% of the money in a live environment which whilst having lower variance involves more costs and more pitfalls of being in a casino. This is a really bad idea. To play live tournaments for a living you honestly need to be playing with an average buyin of probably £1k or higher and even then it is heavily dependent on your overall expenses. I don't think it is worthwhile travelling to a GPS for over £80 worth of expenses and I'd imagine my roi is higher than the potential horse.  


Just buying x% of his action and not committing him to a deal with makeup seems to make much more sense for both parties.

why would you have to play 1k buy ins to play for a living? It all depends on how much money you require to make a living rather than just trying to win a small to medium house.

GPS in Birmingham. £20 petrol, £20 food (seems low, 2x meal 1x brekkie) £50 hotel £90 in expenses. 50% roi on 440 = 220 so your ev is £130 over roughly 6 hours playing time for an hourly of £20 but when you include getting to and from the venue being free for all day one and day two etc your hourly is just a pittance and your variance is insane.

If your ABI is £50 and your roi is 100% you need an average playing time of ~5 hours to be worthwhile and no expenses at all which just isn't possible.

I understand what you are saying, and keeping expenses to a min to maximize your ROI. But it also depends on other factors, such as the time period/number of tournaments which you take into account. You cant just pluck a figure of 50% ROI as an average figure. An average prize pool for the an ABI of £50 will normally be around the 5K mark with about 1600 up top, you could potentially win 31 times your buy in for a much higher ROI of 50, and depending on your skill level finish in the top 3 positions about 1/5 of the time. A know a few people who achieve this type of return in local comps in such as Luton G casino.

Having an average hour rate of £20 quid playing 40 hours a week 48 weeks of the year, your making 800 quid a week, £41,600 a year tax free......    

20% of the time you think you will finish in the top 3 in a 100 runner 1 day live turbo donkfest?  Are you serious?  You talk of plucking figures out of the air where do you get this 20% figure from and the £20 average hourly rate (this was mentioned by the previous poster on a £440 buy in comp where said player has a 50% roi in these types of games)?  Have you factored in rake for these type of comps which will be 10% min more likely 15-20% on the buy in.  Expenses getting to and from the venue, travel time getting to and from the venue?  A weekly or twice weekly tip for the dealers as you plan to finish top 3 at least once a week?

I trying to think of something constructive to say in response..... If you cant final table 20% of the time (top 3 as stated above) then you shouldn't be considering being a MTT Pro. We are not talking about a "Fun"player" who will final table once in a blue moon.

And yes an Average hourly rate of £20 would indeed include expenses.

How is final tabling a 100 runner event finishing in the top 3? (you state £5k prizepools with abi of £50) so it's fair to assume there is 100 runners in these events.  I assume FT will have 10 players on it.  So you have gone from finishing in the top 3% of an mtt to the top 10% of an mtt 20% of the time.  Big difference.

Run me through the maths of where you get a £20 hourly rate AFTER expenses from playing £50 100 runner live mtts if you wouldn't mind?

I have changed the goal posts in regards to finishing top 3 to final table I'll give you that one. What would you say the normal percentage of time someone final table's and then go on to finish in the top 3? 33% based on 9 handed final table? so based of making the final table 20% of the time your going to make the top 3 6% of the time. I'll run the numbers later on today and see what it pops out as an hourly rate.

The £20 an hour was an example from the post I replied to. I simple put that figure in a 40 hour week..... It would all depend on how far you live from the venue ect ect.

What makes you think he is a winning player?

Why can he not bankroll himself from his regular job?

I doubt his figure is based on anything too solid and I doubt that for someone who this is a new experience for should be taking on such a deal. The hours involved, emotional discipline needed and finding a plus ev schedule, especially for him who will be providing 100% of the time and be receiving less than a 100% of the money in a live environment which whilst having lower variance involves more costs and more pitfalls of being in a casino. This is a really bad idea. To play live tournaments for a living you honestly need to be playing with an average buyin of probably £1k or higher and even then it is heavily dependent on your overall expenses. I don't think it is worthwhile travelling to a GPS for over £80 worth of expenses and I'd imagine my roi is higher than the potential horse.  


Just buying x% of his action and not committing him to a deal with makeup seems to make much more sense for both parties.

why would you have to play 1k buy ins to play for a living? It all depends on how much money you require to make a living rather than just trying to win a small to medium house.

GPS in Birmingham. £20 petrol, £20 food (seems low, 2x meal 1x brekkie) £50 hotel £90 in expenses. 50% roi on 440 = 220 so your ev is £130 over roughly 6 hours playing time for an hourly of £20 but when you include getting to and from the venue being free for all day one and day two etc your hourly is just a pittance and your variance is insane.

If your ABI is £50 and your roi is 100% you need an average playing time of ~5 hours to be worthwhile and no expenses at all which just isn't possible.

I understand what you are saying, and keeping expenses to a min to maximize your ROI. But it also depends on other factors, such as the time period/number of tournaments which you take into account. You cant just pluck a figure of 50% ROI as an average figure. An average prize pool for the an ABI of £50 will normally be around the 5K mark with about 1600 up top, you could potentially win 31 times your buy in for a much higher ROI of 50, and depending on your skill level finish in the top 3 positions about 1/5 of the time. A know a few people who achieve this type of return in local comps in such as Luton G casino.

Having an average hour rate of £20 quid playing 40 hours a week 48 weeks of the year, your making 800 quid a week, £41,600 a year tax free......    

20% of the time you think you will finish in the top 3 in a 100 runner 1 day live turbo donkfest?  Are you serious?  You talk of plucking figures out of the air where do you get this 20% figure from and the £20 average hourly rate (this was mentioned by the previous poster on a £440 buy in comp where said player has a 50% roi in these types of games)?  Have you factored in rake for these type of comps which will be 10% min more likely 15-20% on the buy in.  Expenses getting to and from the venue, travel time getting to and from the venue?  A weekly or twice weekly tip for the dealers as you plan to finish top 3 at least once a week?

I trying to think of something constructive to say in response..... If you cant final table 20% of the time (top 3 as stated above) then you shouldn't be considering being a MTT Pro. We are not talking about a "Fun"player" who will final table once in a blue moon.

And yes an Average hourly rate of £20 would indeed include expenses.

What makes you think he is a winning player?

Why can he not bankroll himself from his regular job?

I doubt his figure is based on anything too solid and I doubt that for someone who this is a new experience for should be taking on such a deal. The hours involved, emotional discipline needed and finding a plus ev schedule, especially for him who will be providing 100% of the time and be receiving less than a 100% of the money in a live environment which whilst having lower variance involves more costs and more pitfalls of being in a casino. This is a really bad idea. To play live tournaments for a living you honestly need to be playing with an average buyin of probably £1k or higher and even then it is heavily dependent on your overall expenses. I don't think it is worthwhile travelling to a GPS for over £80 worth of expenses and I'd imagine my roi is higher than the potential horse.  


Just buying x% of his action and not committing him to a deal with makeup seems to make much more sense for both parties.

why would you have to play 1k buy ins to play for a living? It all depends on how much money you require to make a living rather than just trying to win a small to medium house.

GPS in Birmingham. £20 petrol, £20 food (seems low, 2x meal 1x brekkie) £50 hotel £90 in expenses. 50% roi on 440 = 220 so your ev is £130 over roughly 6 hours playing time for an hourly of £20 but when you include getting to and from the venue being free for all day one and day two etc your hourly is just a pittance and your variance is insane.

If your ABI is £50 and your roi is 100% you need an average playing time of ~5 hours to be worthwhile and no expenses at all which just isn't possible.

I understand what you are saying, and keeping expenses to a min to maximize your ROI. But it also depends on other factors, such as the time period/number of tournaments which you take into account. You cant just pluck a figure of 50% ROI as an average figure. An average prize pool for the an ABI of £50 will normally be around the 5K mark with about 1600 up top, you could potentially win 31 times your buy in for a much higher ROI of 50, and depending on your skill level finish in the top 3 positions about 1/5 of the time. A know a few people who achieve this type of return in local comps in such as Luton G casino.

Having an average hour rate of £20 quid playing 40 hours a week 48 weeks of the year, your making 800 quid a week, £41,600 a year tax free......   

What makes you think he is a winning player?

Why can he not bankroll himself from his regular job?

I doubt his figure is based on anything too solid and I doubt that for someone who this is a new experience for should be taking on such a deal. The hours involved, emotional discipline needed and finding a plus ev schedule, especially for him who will be providing 100% of the time and be receiving less than a 100% of the money in a live environment which whilst having lower variance involves more costs and more pitfalls of being in a casino. This is a really bad idea. To play live tournaments for a living you honestly need to be playing with an average buyin of probably £1k or higher and even then it is heavily dependent on your overall expenses. I don't think it is worthwhile travelling to a GPS for over £80 worth of expenses and I'd imagine my roi is higher than the potential horse.  


Just buying x% of his action and not committing him to a deal with makeup seems to make much more sense for both parties.

why would you have to play 1k buy ins to play for a living? It all depends on how much money you require to make a living rather than just trying to win a small to medium house.

I thought I would chip in with some of my thoughts on this.  I have been playing around with the idea of going pro for a number of years, with the intention to play mainly live MTT with the option of cash games (normally a deep 1/2 game)if I bust out of the comp. I looked to set aside living costs af around 10-15k to cover household bills, food, clothes, Ect, and then looked to have a roll of around 10k. I would mainly be looking to play the daily comps at my local (to keep traveling costs to a min and the average players are soft) ranging form 30 quid to 70 quid and throw in the odd Dtd monthly and monthly special at the local would make up my schedule to begin with, and review accordingly In 6-12 months time. I would also take shots at the higher buy ins if I could sat into them or sell action.

Now most poker players are losing ones, and need there normal income to keep them a float. I find constancy  is the key to playing for a living, and you should only look to do it once you a earning more money playing in your spare  time than your 9-5, over a a good period of time. When it comes to having to borrow in order to start up, it would suggest that your not yet a winning enough money playing the game. On top of that you now need to make enough money to repay your backer, increase/maintain your bankroll and, set aside cash for your next household bills.

I've ranted on far too much than what I intended, but in sum it all up I'm an optimised, it can be done, but money with relisitic expectations and solid bankroll management. And to answer your question it probally is the higher figure that is required and your deffinatly thinking about the bigger picture about their finance. As long as your confident he is doing this for the right reasons and has the ability to achieve their goals then go for it.

In a side note how much would he like to make an hour on the cash games?

and for the main

Click to see full-size image.

sunday night 5 seats GTD on party

Click to see full-size image.

Another free seat up for grabs tonight?

Why has the currency changed to dollars?

Day 2 is the SCOOP ME, which might put some people off.

But really hope you guys pull this off. Such a great tourney,

Not too sure about that a milly for 100 best value around

Just a percentage breakdown idea for a winning player....

40% to the player
30% returned to the pot
30% for Blonde

I assume this will be done on a monthly basis if it goes ahead and everyone involves chips in a £10 a month. If all goes well and we have a few scores we could use the % returned to Pot towards a Blonde Bash, or have more than one runner per month if the pot allows for it.

This is under the presumption the stakes don't want a return on investment and are happy for it to spin up to allow more players to be staked per month. Which I personally would be happy to do.

Based on last months DTD £330.00, based on a staked player winning outright, and 33 backers if we took out share out we would be looking at £243.18 back each based on a 30% share divided between the backers.

I'll volunteer to be the escrow. But it'll never happen for an EPT.

I think a DTD £300 deepstack is more realistic. 30 people send me a tenner, I do a random draw and whoever is drawn out plays with the payouts as suggested by OP. I can make sure whoever plays doesn't do a runner from DTD if they cash. It wouldn't be a "nightmare", it would take a bit of work but I like the idea of a blonde playing a comp they otherwise wouldn't have otherwise played, and playing it for blonde.

I don't think anymore than 30/40 people is realistic. Plus the deepstack is a comp anyone can win and people can play it even if they have a mon-fri job. EPTs are obviously way tougher and are abroad, last for 6/7 days (apparently) so much more travel expense and days off work that need to be booked.

Happy to be involved in this, maybe we can try and get this rolling for the next  300 deep stack? Perhaps the winner of the draw can wear a blonde t shirt or something to help promote the site. (I assume we are all for increasing numbers on here ?)

Is anyone else finding the freeroll laggy?
I am using a mac running no other apps etc. When the hole cards are dealt the time bank has ticked down to approx 10 seconds before my hole cards are showing.
 

Yeah, was laggy on the iPad, when counting down players time bar, they got like 3 mins to act at times.

16th....... :-(

Close but no cigar

i think a lot of people are going to be put off the idea if it has to be at DTD. Can't there just be an "unoffical" event?

Maybe ask Party Poker to sponsor the event, they are getting all feedback threads etc on here and have a very bad image in the UK market, it looks like they want to improve, spending a relatively small amount to cover costs here and maybe senidng down a rep to get involved (Michelle Orpe?) and changing perceptions etc would seem to be a good idea.

Where did you have in mind? I'm sure once we(If) gather at DTD we could also arrange something to do afterwards or the next day?