In all seriousness I think there's some info missing ging

- you choose to leave your wallet & visa in an unattended rucksack? Who does that?
- you say it's to step away if ur stacked. What does/did that achieve? Nothing right?
- you feel the need to wave visa at gorilla to justify why you need to access your property?
- your behaviour is such that gorilla is compelled to search thru a customers bag even though it's so busy?

Your behaviour has been deemed suspicious bro and gorilla doesn't draw those conclusions from a customer getting a visa out a wallet...

In all seriousness why would I go to such lengths to fabricate anything I've said so far or knowingly exclude information besides peoples' names.

1. I don't disagree.. While this is not a good idea because of the chance of theft, there wasn't any cash in my wallet, just some ID and a credit/debit card. If someone stole this, it's still easily reportable to my bank if it goes missing or if someone has peeked and noted down my card details.

2. I'm not immune to tilt. I used to get 500 from the cashier, (max buy in 250 I think?) then if I needed to top up my stack to max buy-in I would be able to without leaving the table. Back then I wasn't patient, I would lose a big hand and then try and jump straight back in to the action - my thought process was that if I had to physically get up and off the gaming floor to get more money - this would give me some time to de-tilt and not spew hundreds more off shortly after.

3. It's not like I waved it right in front of his face and said "hey dum-dum, this is bank card, I go gambol now". It was more subtle than that but difficult to put into writing but I'll try. Given it was so busy, I got my debit card out of my bag and just let him see what it was. I wasn't hiding it from view but I wasn't exactly shoving it in his face either.

4. This is the only one I can't answer with any certainty. I still don't know what caused him to search my bag. I hope this was part of their supposed investigation into the incident

Definitely wouldn't start lying to them though, the truth here definitely seems more than good enough to get your ban lifted and if you happen to get caught in a lie your whole case is gone, immediately.

I agree, I still appreciate the contribution from mikeymike though about appealing to those higher up and providing a name as well - hopefully Tikay or someone else can get a hold of someone with that sort of power that is willing to listen..

I think that you need to tackle this by a different route and you probably only have one shot write to the Executive Chairman – Graham Pimlott and outline that you were banned because a security guard had seen an old pack of dealer cards in a rucksack that had been borrowed from your flatmate who worked at the casino.

Do not imply that the security chap deliberately opened the rucksack – you can mention that you helped out the manager at the casino when you found out that your friend was allegedly doing wrong and mention this manager by name also ask him to write a covering letter confirming this.

Desist from telling real people who you know that you are banned as you could find your self-blacklisted from other casinos.

Most Chairman of top companies and I have known loads really have nothing to do so when an opportunity arises for them to get involved in something they normally take the bait.

I speak from some experience as I was once banned from nearly all the nightclubs where I lived (down south) – they brought in some Northern bouncers and unfortunately there was a bit of a fracas – I was young then and in the Army – I wrote to the head honcho explaining what had happened – I had not been drinking – called a southern softie and been obnoxious about my hair cut – outcome ban lifted – ended up working for the firm when I was based in Aldershot for a while.

PS – handwrite the letter and send it so its signed for

Good Luck

Nice idea thank you mikeymike.

I did try to tweet the now ex-MD of Grosvenor Mark Jones.. and he asked me to send him an email which he never replied to (though according to LinkedIn he left Grosvenor a month after this interaction - so any slim chance of help back then is gone). The only problem with this is that my story is already out there in emails to reinstatement@rank.com and Grosvenor Bournemouth. Whether they've read them and paid attention to them or not, wouldn't it harm my appeal if I start telling white lies?

If the style of cards were completely out of use and had been for some time before the incident, you can make the case that they couldn't have been used at all for any nefarious purpose. 

But if the same style were in use anywhere, it is a really bad security lapse for them.  The cards left the casino and could have been tampered with and then re-introduced to the casino.  So that is not good and I can see why they barred you.

Thanks for the reply doubleup. I agree a ban of some sorts was not unexpected. 6 months, a year or whatever. I accept that I made a huge mistake. What gets me is that they said they'd conduct an investigation, yet they don't disclose any information on their findings (outside of this incident I had never had any trouble) or even contact me to try and clear up the grey areas or any questions marks there could be.

AFAIK Grosvenor keep a track of which casino I've been in, because you are always asked to sign in at reception.

I tried to help a friend who was also banned from Grosvenor (The Vic). He was a long standing member but wasn't given a reason and couldn't think why. The reinstatement@rank.com never replied even after several attempts over several months.
However after about a year, he tried going into another Grosvenor and he suddenly found the ban was lifted.
Have you tried going in to the casino and asking them if the ban is still current?

Yes, very recently I went in to try and get the ban lifted and it was a no, apparently the question was asked to all of the managers but who knows if it gets that far..

This is a group wide ban which has extended to Gentings as well (I'm guessing I've been ban-hammered  and placed on a ban list shared between the two companies..).

I just want to confirm what the OP said earlier today.

He is a player Next Door with several thousand games to his credit, & he posts from time to time on the Forum there.

He sent me the narrative yesterday, hoping I may know someone, or know someone who does, & I first suggested he post the whole story, & them we can go from there. I believe he had done that on 2+2 a while back, &, of course, 2+2 being what it is, he got savaged by the trolls. I assured him that, for the most part, the blondes are not like that.  

He goes by the name of "Ging", (pronounced with a hard G as in "King"), & seems a very genuine guy to me. I believe he is a British born chap of Chinese descent.  

Grosvenor are playing hardball here - he struggles to even talk to them or get a non-generic reply. Grosvenor, of course, may consider they have good reasons.  

I used to have a few high level contacts in Grosvenor, we did a bit of business back in my APAT days, so I'll have to have a look & see if they are still in place.

If any blondes have any worthwhile contacts, I'm sure Ging would appreciate your help.

Anyone know if Russell Tamplin is still at Grosvenor?

Thanks for your replay Tikay, without your input I would have just left this thread as it is very disheartening to fight for what seems is a lost cause as I've been barred for 3 years now.

To maybe add a little to the discussion..

Grosvenor told me their reinstatement/security team would conduct a full investigation before giving me the decision to uphold or reinstate my membership

- If they checked the cameras, however far back they keep records - they would never have seen anything suspicious because I was just playing poker just like any other person.
- Automatic card shufflers - They have at least one machine shuffler for the cash games which detects if there's any missing cards - so if there was a scenario where I was cheating - card switching or whatever, what am I supposed to do, switch cards mid hand, then after I show down or win the pot,  switch cards again before the cards go back to the card shuffler?
- Deck design - I'm not 100% on this but I think I had a red deck with the mini cross-hatched design, which were replaced by a "swirly" design. So obviously the cards were discontinued and not in use
- Full deck of 52 cards in the bag, none on the gaming floor or on me in person - surely they would have at least counted the deck before discarding them?
- I'm sure others have seen this as well - Occasionally the dealers go on an empty table and count the decks, then sign them in/out or whatever on a clip board. So there is a record to make sure none go missing. If Bournemouth performed an audit and saw none were missing, they certainly didn't come asking for where they originated from..

This would probably take all of 15 minutes to explain if I could have arranged a meeting with the managers at Bournemouth  but it seems like they won't entertain the idea of it.

Besides the security guard issue, do all of the above seem reasonable arguements for me to put across?

Casino definitely should have made more of an effort extracting from you the source of the cards. It really is in their best interests to identify that leak and fix it.

That clearly wouldn't be a good thing for your friend if he is still in the biz. I don't really see a happy ending for anyone in this, at best you get re-instated and your friend gets a visit from security and at worst you both get lifetime bans.

Whilst there was no intent, I think you are just going to have to suck this one up as going into a casino with an unmarked deck of theirs just isn't a good thing to do.

Ok to divulge a little

The poker dealer is just someone I know who happened to also be a student at our uni and a poker dealer. He no longer works at Grosvenor or in the casino business and have not had any contact with them since long before this incident occurred

This same person actually tried to "sell/swap" cash chips with me - and said they wouldn't rake my pots in the cash games. I wasn't comfortable and definitely not ok with this. I went and told the card room manager, and they subsequently were let go from employment. They had tried to get several people to take up this deal, so  they do not know I am part of the reason they lost their job (I was assured by the CRM that he wouldn't have my name mentioned...

This is also the reason that the card room manager of that casino is willing to vouch for me - I've helped him in the past and he knows that I'm an honest person and cheating myself would never cross my mind.

Preparing for the backlash for being a grass etc. now...

Why did the security guard look in your bag after you had gone?

Was just gonna say this, seems pretty irregular

The answer to this is I'm not sure. Everyone who I have told this to has said, the security guard isn't allowed/can't do that - but I can't really argue because at the end of the day, he found those cards. If he found nothing, then I would never know my bag was searched, but when I went downstairs and was presented with my bag - the cards struck my mind - even without saying a word I knew that my bag had been searched while I was upstairs in the card room.

As I said, the cards were in a completely separate compartment to my wallet. I got my bank card out of my wallet and went back upstairs - for some reason he may have thought this was suspicious?

That's very strange, pretty sure he's not allowed to do that but don't know for sure. Best of luck with getting un-banned, seems like an insane situation.

I agree that if he thought something was suspicious, then he could have notified me there and then. I certainly was not behaving in a shady manner, after all I had forgotten I'd left the cards in there.

Whatever he thought he saw - when he went looking, he hit the jackpot and thunderball all in one..

Why did the security guard look in your bag after you had gone?

Was just gonna say this, seems pretty irregular

The answer to this is I'm not sure. Everyone who I have told this to has said, the security guard isn't allowed/can't do that - but I can't really argue because at the end of the day, he found those cards. If he found nothing, then I would never know my bag was searched, but when I went downstairs and was presented with my bag - the cards struck my mind - even without saying a word I knew that my bag had been searched while I was upstairs in the card room.

As I said, the cards were in a completely separate compartment to my wallet. I got my bank card out of my wallet and went back upstairs - for some reason he may have thought this was suspicious?

[Early 2014]

best thing is speak to the GM and manager that as on shift when the incident happened, they are the only ones who will be able to make the decision.

I'd rather not type out a huge long wall of text right now on why I'm banned but if enough people care to know then I will update later.

Jackanory time

Hi guys

Sorry I didn't reply to this thread sooner. I know I said I'd post my side of the story but I was a little on the fence to write it all up because I wasn't sure anyone could help me or even believe me. I sent the below to Tikay in a private message and he recommended for me to post it here, so here goes..

------------------

Before I begin, I hope everyone can appreciate that while I am representing myself from my point-of-view - I wouldn't be still fighting to have my ban uplifted if I wasn't being 100% genuine. What has happened does appear very far-fetched but this is how events unfolded.

Here is a timeline of events...

Early 2014
I'm a student at Aston Uni, Birmingham. In our poker society, in our weekly home games we are literally playing with cardboard playing cards until one of the students, who worked as a poker dealer at Grosvenor Hill Street, brought an discarded, unpunched deck from the casino. How can we not be overjoyed to have a proper deck of cards? As I attended the home game every week without fail, I took the cards and we used them every week - no harm in this I thought...

June 2014 - Dec 2014
Not much to report.. Finished uni, went home + started to grind live cash at Bournemouth for 5-6 nights a week. I can probably add now that we only had 1-2 tables and had machine card shufflers (you can probably see where this is going by now). I don't have a car at this point so travel by train, 6-7pm I head out, with a rucksack to carry my headphones and rain jacket which is kept downstairs in the reception's cloakroom OFF the gaming floor.

Jan 2015
I had brought my cards to bring to a family home game over the Christmas period and completely forgot to unpack them from my rucksack. I played on Xmas Eve and had an awful session and when I got home (I think on the 2nd or 3rd Jan) I wanted to get straight back on the grind.. so off I went to the casino.

On this particular night I decided to leave my wallet and debit cards in my rucksack. I know I should keep these with me but after my previous session I wanted a reason to step away from the table if I got stacked, nothing malicious here..

I lost my initial buy-in, and downstairs I went to ask for my bag to grab my wallet. Here's where things get dicey..

It was SO busy that it wasn't a receptionist that served me at the desk, it was one of the security men who normally stand by the front doors. I got my wallet out, even waved the debit card at him to gesture "hey I just needed this, sorry to be a nuisance" and went back upstairs. At this point I had no idea the deck of old Grosvenor house cards were in the rucksack. My wallet was in a separate mini compartment at the very front of the bag, and everything else, headphones, jacket and the Grosvenor cards were in the "main" compartment, it is impossible for anyone to have known they were there unless they went looking.

Half an hour later, I get a tap on the shoulder from the suits who ask me to come downstairs and immediately when I'm presented with my bag I know they know. They ask me what's in the bag, I get the cards out for them, and I'm not given any chance to speak with the general/duty manager. The deck was intact, all 52 cards and an old design (and maybe even different colour to the ones used on the night).

I was told there and then that they'd "look into it" and "get back to me" - that was the reason I wouldn't be able to just have a sit down with the manager. I'm sure there would have been questions I could answer regarding where the cards originated from - especially since if the Bournemouth Poker Room had been carrying out audits on the current/discarded decks of cards, they would see that none have gone missing..

No problem I thought, yes I was (excuse my language) knee deep in **** but surely if they checked the cameras and interviewed me, or someone who would have vouched for me (card room manager in Grosvenor Birmingham Hill St) - I would maybe be given a second chance after all.. because I didn't actually cheat or card switch/whatever I'm suspected of. But it looks like they have just blanket banned me..

From Jan 15 onwards I have tried contacting their official reinstatement team (only contactable by email, not telephone and never any names in the almost robotic, generic replies given), twitter (tweeted their ex-MD who asked me to email him but never responded) and got in contact with the manager who'll vouch for me - all without any success. I am really down in the dumps that due to this one error I am now categorised as a cheater in Grosvenor's eyes (and Genting in turn have nationally banned me). Poker is a game where the players have a lot of power and responsibility to keep things honest and within the spirit of the game - pointing out dealer errors, making sure people don't rat hole chips off the cash table etc. and I am 100% one of the good guys in poker - but it just feels terrible that the ones that hold the keys aren't even willing to take my side of the story on board.

best thing is speak to the GM and manager that as on shift when the incident happened, they are the only ones who will be able to make the decision.

Thanks, I've been in contact with the customer service manager at Bournemouth who has been surprisingly good at relaying things back to me, I might go down and see if I can speak to them in person if they'll allow it

I have seen cheats get back in, but it takes decades, not a couple of years.

I just want to know if there is anyone I can email or write a letter to explain the finer details of the incident to prove I wasn't cheating. Sure, I get that actual cheats should be banned, but although my case looks bad, if they had actually checked cameras etc. they would see that I wasn't.

grovelling apologies referring to the person/s you offended and asking to make a face to face apology will normally do the trick unless you tried to cheat/fraun then you would have no hope

Unfortunately that is what I'm suspected of, cheating.

I absolutely wasn't and am not a cheat, I did have a couple of card room managers willing to vouch for me and they knew of the incident, but they were never contacted for a reference. I wasn't well known by any means, but I'm those who I played on the tables with would know I was genuinely an honest player.

Is there really no way I can get a shoe in the door of someone who would not throw my case into the bin when looking over the notes on my account if they suspect me of cheating?

Hi guys,

A few years ago I used to play live cash/tournaments in the West Midlands when I was a student but was barred for something very stupid (my own fault). I did make a post on 2+2 asking for advice but just got trolled and gave up replying. I'd rather not type out a huge long wall of text right now on why I'm banned but if enough people care to know then I will update later.

I've tried to appeal to reinstatement@rank.com, following their standard procedure but without success. I'm frustrated because while I know casinos ban people every day, I was told they would investigate into what happened and I had a number of credible references (card room managers) who would vouch for me and my behaviour if called upon but no one including myself was ever contacted regarding my suspension. I was thinking maybe if I go to my local casino (Bournemouth) and try to arrange a meeting with the GM then at least I could reason with them in person rather than send emails over and over but receive no reply.

Any advice on what I can do to get unbanned?