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5011  Poker Forums / The Rail / Re: Error in Cryptologic (Betfair, William Hill) software on: July 13, 2005, 09:18:19 PM
Seems to me most online sites use the following rules:

(i) if the BB is all-in by calling then others can limp for the same amount as his all-in or the small blind - whichever is the larger
(ii) any raise can be re-raised, even if its a 1 chip raise

The rules don't change so I can't see a problem - just have to bear it in mind. (ii) in particular can lead to some interesting plays. I quite like it  Smiley

I'd be very surprised if a site such as Stars had this rule - although I don't know for definite.  The problem is its a clear error and, as such, should be eliminated from the software (surely it can't be that hard to do!)  If you were the short stack in question in a live tournament and saw someone limp in for the amount of the small blind would you let it slide or would you call the floor over, given that the chances of you being knocked out have just increased.  Why should it be any different online?

However, of more concern to me now is the fact the site in question won't even acknowledge that there's an error here, after its been (politely) pointed out to them.  Consequently, they're just allowing the situation to perpetuate and at some point down the line it'll affect a much bigger tournament than the one I was playing in.  This brings the professionalism of the site into question in my view.  If they can't deal with a small problem effectively how the hell can we have confidence that they'll handle a bigger problem any better?  As an example, given what you've seen from the customer service response here, would you be confident in how they'd deal with a potential collusion issue or a deliberate disconnect, based on a hand history submitted to them? 

If I'm leaving money in an online site there are a number of basic things that I'd expect from that site.  One of them would be knowledge of the rules of the games they offer and a willingness to fix any bugs that are discovered in the software.  Unfortunately (and rather surprisingly) this seems to be a minority view.

Sheriff
5012  Poker Forums / The Rail / Error in Cryptologic (Betfair, William Hill) software on: July 12, 2005, 08:08:13 PM
I played in a WPT Paris Sit n Go on Betfair the other day and was at the table when the following hand occurred:

Game #770109573: Texas Hold'em No Limit (200/400) - 2005/07/10 -
13:12:11 (GMT)
Table "WPT_PARIS 785827 - 1" Seat 8 is the button.
Seat 2: wazz (3668 in chips)
Seat 5: ETCartman (4066 in chips)
Seat 8: sufc (6809 in chips)
Seat 9: rockyread (299 in chips)
Seat 10: smartmike sits out
rockyread: posts small blind 200
smartmike: is all-in 158
smartmike: folds
----- HOLE CARDS -----
dealt to ETCartman [ ]
wazz: calls 200
ETCartman: folds
sufc: folds
----- FLOP ----- [ As ]
rockyread: bets 99 and is all-in
wazz: calls 99
----- TURN ----- [ As ][]
----- RIVER ----- [ As ][]
----- SHOW DOWN -----
rockyread: shows [ ] (Two Pairs, Jacks and Eights, Ace high)
wazz: shows [two hearts ] (A Pair of Eights, Ace high)
rockyread collected 756 from Main pot
----- SUMMARY -----
Total pot 756 Main pot 756 Rake 0
Board [ As ]
Seat 2: wazz lost
Seat 5: ETCartman folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: sufc (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: rockyread (small blind) showed [ ] and won (756) with
Two Pairs, Jacks and Eights, Ace high

Clearly there is an error in the software here as player 'wazz' was allowed to limp into the pot for only the amount of the small blind.

After finishing the tournament I sent an email to Betfair pointing this out as attached below:

Quote
I have just been involved in the hand for which the history has been included below.

Please be advised that, in a situation such as this where the big blind
does not have enough chips to for the full amount, any player
subsequently calling still has to pay the full amount of the big blind
(in this case 400 chips).  In this hand, player wazz was allowed to
limp in for 200 chips, which is the amount of the small blind.

Please pass on this information to your software providers so that
the appropriate corrections can be made.

I have just received the following response from Betfair, which is a little disappointing to say the least:

Quote
Dear Curtis

Thank you for your e-mail, because the second player was the big
blind (who only had 158 chips and it automatically puts them all in),
only up to the limit of the first bet - the small blind has to be
called. Hence why user wazz only had to put in 200 chips.


Please do not hesitate to contact us if you have any further
enquiries.

Kind regards

Lee Puddephatt

I have sent a second email pointing out that this interpretation is incorrect.  However, perhaps it would be helpful if others would also speak up to re-inforce the point.  Also, given this site's links with William Hill, perhaps someone with a more influential voice than me could point this out at an opportune moment.  Ultimately, its a Cryptologic issue to sort out but they have little chance if I can't get past the individual site's Customer service in the first place.

Sheriff

NB:  The error didn't have much bearing on the actual hand in question.  However, in other circumstances (especially late in a bigger money tournament or satellite) giving players a half-price opportunity to limp in and potentially knock out a short stack could potentially cause problems.
5013  Poker Forums / Live Tournament Updates / Re: WSOP - MAIN EVENT LIVE UPDATE on: July 08, 2005, 09:48:58 PM
Sheriff Fatman - would be glad to keep an eye out for Shauna Madrigal, but I don't know her/him - can you give me any clues??!! Table no? Can she/he make themselves known to me? SO many folks here, it would help.

Tikay

PM sent.  Hopefully, it'll be clear why.

Sheriff
5014  Poker Forums / Live Tournament Updates / Re: WSOP - MAIN EVENT LIVE UPDATE on: July 08, 2005, 05:46:39 PM
Day 1 chip count here Ironside.  I posted the link, rather than a cut n paste job.

Sheriff

http://www.pokerpages.com/tournament/result10880.htm
5015  Poker Forums / The Rail / Re: Tikay goes Celebrity Spotting at the WSOP on: July 08, 2005, 04:35:24 PM
Eric Palladino was in E.R (he played Dr Mallucci) and was also in the film U-571.

Sheriff

Edit - I really should have flicked to page 2 before posting - I might have spotted the identical post above this one!
5016  Poker Forums / Live Tournament Updates / Re: WSOP - MAIN EVENT LIVE UPDATE on: July 08, 2005, 12:15:25 PM
Guys

Can you keep an eye out on Day 2 for the progress of Shauna Madrigal please.

Thanks

Sheriff
5017  Poker Forums / The Rail / Re: Could Simon Trumper clarify? on: July 05, 2005, 11:03:24 AM
There's a thread on the same article on 2+2 which has prompted a little more discussion than here. I'm not aware that Simon posts on 2+2 so, assuming its OK with Simon and Tikay, I'll copy any response he makes here onto that thread.

Sheriff

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=2789361&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=14&fpart=1
5018  Poker Forums / The Rail / Re: European Tournament 2005 on: July 05, 2005, 10:32:52 AM
Wow, you had me fooled!  At no point did I think this would be SPAM, what with the website links and everything!

Sheriff

5019  Poker Forums / The Rail / Re: LIVE GAME NR GATWICK AIRPORT on: July 04, 2005, 08:17:58 PM
Despite the negative comments this really is a decent game........provided all pots are folded around to the blinds, and no flop is ever dealt.

Fixed your post.

Sheriff
5020  Poker Forums / Live Tournament Updates / Brunson wins 10th bracelet! on: July 01, 2005, 12:09:16 PM
I somehow get the feeling this story will dominate the day's events and TV coverage.

He's just won the 6max NLHE event.

Awesome going for a man in his 70's - there's hope for you yet Tikay!

Sheriff
5021  Poker Forums / Live Tournament Updates / Re: Day 2 - Walsall 300 freezeout on: June 26, 2005, 07:24:21 PM
why does the new blonde poker reporter keep callin Mr Kendall " uncle Tony " is she just being polite ?

At least its not 'Daddy' - then I would be worried!

GL Tikay!

Sheriff
5022  Poker Forums / Live Tournament Updates / Re: WSOP Qualifier Sunday 19th on: June 20, 2005, 02:35:42 AM
Well a lurker won a seat at least. Good luck to you all next week. Maybe I'll see some of you out in Vegas

Justin O

Nice one Byron!

Sheriff
5023  Poker Forums / The Rail / Re: Dates/times on: May 17, 2005, 02:56:47 PM
That's actually the same site Ant

Not quite.  The first one is just a link to Cheeseypoker.  Much easier to save yourself the eye strain of the first site and go straight there.

Sheriff
5024  Poker Forums / The Rail / Re: Poker 425 - Blackpool Bonanza Week on: May 12, 2005, 12:49:25 AM
So no Oxford Cup coverage?  That camera and Rhowena with the microphone must've just been for show then!

Sheriff
5025  Poker Forums / The Rail / Re: Ariston on TV on: April 27, 2005, 11:58:37 AM
Unlucky Ariston - last hand apart you didn't put a foot wrong.  The last one was just one of those situations where that evil part of the brain kicks in and overrides the initial (usually very accurate, as in this case) instinct.

On a more general note, last night's show was the first one of the BPO programmes that I've watched for any length of time and I must say that the structure does not make for good live TV.  The blinds escalate so quickly relative to the stacks that there's not much opportunity for any post flop play.

I'm generally not a fan of the 6 player, camera under glass, show that the UK seems so fond of (nothing since has come close to matching the LNP format from which it's derived).  The live element last night added a bit of intrigue for me but, in the end, I was watching it more for the 'train wreck' factor than anything else.  It quickly became clear that it would be a pre-flop all-in fest and luck, rather than skill, would be the determining factor.

I suppose this is the downside of ensuring a live tournament ends within 4.5 hours for TV purposes.  However, for me, its not a format I particularly want to see the top players playing as I can watch it everyday in the online SnG's.

Nice idea - just doesn't really work so well in practice.

Sheriff
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