Yer, has to be a 9 i think...

maybe a Q9? but then that poses the question of the minimum raise preflop...hmm pair of 9's? cant call the turn surely...and as for AK, awful calls on the flop and turn...

then the other option would be clubs, but what could he have to be calling with 2 clubs here, maybe  but how can he call a further $20 on the turn...mustve been a tilty flush drawer in my opinion!

LeKnave

Yer the minimum raise on the flop suggests to me a bigger 8, it is doubtful he would raise with a flushdraw there with a 240 bet and call.  I know raising the turn will tell u if he has the flush, but hes still calling with the bigger 8, im probably going to play the pot very passively on the turn and river.

LeKnave

Haha, why do they do it!  OOP, they're just asking for it...

Easy payoff there for you..Enjoy it 

LeKnave

The main other point to take into account is your position, your the SB so have to act first post flop...if your opponent has a big pair like KK AA or QQ and the flop is Q high and you shoot all in from first position you have no information about his hand apart from when u recieve the call, and at that point theres nothing you can do about it.

Preflop if your going to call KQ from that position the danger bells must have gone off when hoolie moved all in, if fossie calls you know he cant have been on the steal so will almost certainly have KQ dominated...

LeKnave

Haha, easy laydown!

Lol, pretty unforturnate with that one...not a lot can be done there! similar to the cold deck in the WSOP first hand

It can be viewed at 5:00 mins into this clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbXnJ2Eg550&search=poker

LeKnave

Mainly as in tournament play, if u call and your wrong, your tournament is over..when u couldve folded and waited for a better opportunity to get your chips in with and saw urself move into the money.

In a cash game, if u call and are wrong you can simply reload and play with the same field hopefully with some newly aquired information about the player in question, information you can use to take your money back in the future.

I do agree about u saying how you felt 'lost' in the hand and with only a limited amount of time to make your decision it would be very hard to run through all of the aforementioned possibilities! 

LeKnave

a) hands you are beating 77, 88, 99, JJ, (I discount QQ because he would prob re-raise pre-flop)
b) hands you are losing to 55, A10, K10, Q10, J10, 109,  108 (the latter would prob have to have been suited for him to raise)

Ok, lets work through it.

innitially il start with elblondies (b) hands,

55 - I dont beleive the player in question wouldve move all in at this point with such a large holding.

with 910 and 810 - i dont believe he would make a min raise preflop with that sort of hand.
neither would he do that with K10 or A10

I think the most likely hands he would consider doing that with that ur losing to is a J10 or Q10,
But the major point to consider, i he has led out with $3 on the flop...would he do that in a multiway pot on a safe rainbow board with a 10?

(a) hands, big pairs like AA or QQ, i agree with elblondie he would have reraised ur $1.50 preflop.
i believe the most likely hand he has is a pair 7's to J's...most probably JJ with his min raise preflop.

And as horneris pointed out, it is cash not a tournament, its a call from me,

LeKnave

No horneris, steely called before nemesis did, he had pot odds of 1.5-1 and called with his 2 to 1 shot...poor call by him and if he continues to make unprofitable calls like that ul have him in the end.
You had to be as aggressive as you were or risk giving him the odds to make his flush profitably so you made the perfect play, and normally he should pass and ul suck ur fish in with his 9's everytime.

Perfect play.

LeKnave

I have no quarrels against the play, 12 outs over 2 streets, 1.5 to 1 fair move, odd $4 raise from first position with  dont you think.  That tends to suggest he may not be the player u described?

LeKnave

I was a spectator to this interesting hand:

PokerStars Game #5160287832:  Hold'em No Limit ($0.50/$1.00) - 2006/06/05 - 12:27:59 (ET)
Table 'Aquila' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: Zoax ($43.35 in chips)
Seat 3: LeKnave ($154.85 in chips)
Seat 4: th3 d0n ($50 in chips)
Seat 5: Lubber4211 ($111.55 in chips)
Seat 6: murph0511 ($130.30 in chips)
Seat 7: Bukowski63 ($84.70 in chips)
Seat 8: skizcat ($93.40 in chips)
Seat 9: blunty31 ($35.50 in chips)
Zoax: posts small blind $0.50
LeKnave: posts big blind $1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to LeKnave [ ]
th3 d0n: folds
Lubber4211: folds
murph0511: raises $3 to $4
Bukowski63: folds
skizcat: calls $4
blunty31: folds
Zoax: folds
LeKnave: folds
*** FLOP *** [ ]
murph0511: bets $6
skizcat: raises $14 to $20
murph0511: raises $106.30 to $126.30 and is all-in
skizcat: calls $69.40 and is all-in
*** TURN *** [ ] []
*** RIVER *** [ ] []
*** SHOW DOWN ***
murph0511: shows [ ] (a straight flush, Nine to King)
skizcat: mucks hand
murph0511 collected $185.30 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $188.30 | Rake $3
Board [ ]
Seat 1: Zoax (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: LeKnave (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: th3 d0n folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Lubber4211 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: murph0511 showed [ ] and won ($185.30) with a straight flush, Nine to King
Seat 7: Bukowski63 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: skizcat mucked [ ]
Seat 9: blunty31 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Murph played it very oddly but somehow turned the miracle and never looked back.

Just wondering how people felt about his 4 x BB raise with   and his re-re-raise all in on the flop with middle pair, a gut shot and a flush draw?


PS i wasnt part of this hand, just found it interestingly agressive.

LeKnave

I dont really understand why u think you played this hand badly...u have to take aggressive tactics with hands like this...but the fact your questioning yourself suggests you wanted to play it too passively, calling and 'checking' the flop is not an option,

you got all your money in with a 65% favourite, ul win it in the long run no worries.

LeKnave

I believe his pre-flop re-raise is a good move, if the guy re-raises you then, you can easily fold...youve got fold equity as he may have a poor hand just on the sly steal which he would pass to your preflop raise, the fact that he calls the preflop raise suggests a KQ sort of hand and when he calls the flop u have to have him on KJ or JQ.
But as far as im concerned i like the re-raise preflop, if he just flat calls the minimum raise how does he know where he is on the flop?

LeKnave

Im just wondering what the buy in to this tournament was? at the top it says 0015p? in that case i dont think your getting a player off an ace in that sort of tourney.

The danger signs should have really gone off when EZMmoney calls you 600 re-reraise on the flop, you have to put him on a better hand here, and there is no justification for you hammering your last 800 in on the turn.

LeKnave

In this case i believe you may have had him, utg and button fold to him on the sb, he make a min raise, often this move is made for a little steal when short handed.  I think when u re-raised him if he had AA KK or QQ he would have actually re-raised you right there, but the fact he just flat called suggests he doesnt have any of those hands.

He then flat calls you 800 on the flop, with AA KK or QQ there i believe he would move in on you, at this point i would put him on KJ or even the same hand as you.

LeKnave

Im not so sure about calling the  there im afraid, they are a great multiway hand but i dont like the call of $114 with the origional raiser still to act behind you.
If you felt the implied odds instructed a call though fair enough as you know he has KK or AA, if you flop ur str8 your made.  And when the two aces flopped you couldnt put him on AA surely, and its unlikely he'd make that preflop re-raise with an AK, he has to have KK...
If he has KK, ur bluff has a good chance of getting through and ul take a healthy pot down...but the dreaded call came...unlucky.

LeKnave