However, they are not totally wrong... and there are a few ways in which a re-entry option could lead to some sort of edge for Alex. It may make Alex play with more confidence in certain spots, and thus play better poker. For example, he is in a very close spot that if he gets right he will gain a big stack but if he gets wrong he will be busted. Maybe from an EV perspective this spot calls for him to make a big hero call. But Alex is not a perfect playing poker machine, he is a human being with emotions, feelings etc. One of these emotions could be that he does not really want to bust the tournament early, especially if he has travelled to get there etc. So he might be tempted to make a cautious fold in a spot where a hero call is the correct play. To preserve his tournament life, wait for a better spot etc. This would be him playing worse poker than his absolute A-game. If he knows he is able to re-enter the tournament if he busts then he will be more likely to make the correct but high variance play. In other words, re-entry allows those with the ability to re-enter to have an advantage over those without this ability since they are able to be a bit more cold-blooded in their decision making and do not feel as many outward pressures on them.

The flip side of that is it becomes impossible to put pressure on players early doors. It used to be a workable strategy to put extreme pressure on knowing that you were never getting played back at with less than the nuts. Correct me if I'm wrong but I always understood part of poker was to try and force your opponents to make -EV decisions and the re-entry option makes that FAR more difficult. Alex is a good player so if I can put him off making the risky (but correct) hero call I want that edge!

[Re-entries]

Re-entries- As much as I hate them personally the genie can't be put back in the bottle. They've been adopted world wide and universally accepted even if disliked. There are just too many reasons for them from both sides of the fence and I won't bore everyone with the arguments that have mostly appeared here already. HOWEVER- the ease of re-entry can lead to some very marginal poker decisions and the consequent cascade of bad feelings and opinions. One thing that I've tried, on a small scale, is a delayed re-entry. They can have one re-entry but have to miss a level/ set period of time before taking their seat. This doesn't completely eliminate the bad decisions but as most of the re-entries tend to come from the same crowd (gamblers to a man) the threat of delayed gratification can make them re-think that bottom pair call.   Depending on the tournament software used it's not too difficult to manage. It has the added benefit to the venue of having those with a gambling bent and time to kill hanging around.......

Late Reg- A difficult one to get right. There is undoubtedly a need for it as not everyone can get to a tournament for the start. However there's a tendency of poker players to seek out the 'angle' in anything so if the stack at last entry is a decent multiple of the blinds or proportion of expected average stack they'll let the 'mugs' rebuy/ re-enter and build the prize pool. Early bird chips can help but again need to be balanced so as not to totally dissuade late entrants. I do think that late entry periods need to be shortened as it makes it virtually impossible to plan dealers/ tables when more than two thirds of the field turn up after the start! Shortening the late reg period will doubtless generate the normal plethora of moans but it's an issue that needs to work for the benefit of the majority, venue included. Less money wasted means more in the prize pools in the long run.

If there's an obvious problem moving the wheelchair then it has to be someone different- common sense always takes precedence. Both rule 1 and rule 8 of the TDA rules cover this. Allowances MUST be made for players with particular needs; we currently have two players with severe mobility problems that will always start in one of two particular seats with the best access. Moving them from the BB would cause huge disruption and end up delaying the game. It's really a no brainer.

[It wouldn't cost me my job]

Why are you doing the promo?  If it's to increase player numbers you must have some idea about the extra profit generated?  Do you really think that you will get significantly more players by offering a £1m prize than a £100k prize?

This is the key question surely rather then what the odds are.  If we are talking a £200k insurance premium then you need to generate at least this in extra rake for a freerole.  If you predict an extra £250k rake then you are in profit by £50k and if you only predict £150k extra rake then you are down £50k.  I am calculating this all in reference to the cost of the policy as I don't see any business wanting to take this risk uninsured unless you are talking significant extra profit (i.e. rake increases by at least half the cost of the BBJ).  When you start to look at it like this we are talking some significant numbers.  

Also, I'm not sure of your role in this but reading between the lines I am assuming you are the card room manager/supervisor.  If you do convince your employers to assume the risk uninsured and the BBJ drops (despite the apparent long odds these things can happen!) what sort of heat this will bring to you and your position?  Worth considering when you put your neck on the line.  That's not to say don't take risks, but always consider the risk v reward for you personally.

I'm managing to get the cost of the quote down so it's looking a lot more likely. Personally I think we should accept the risk- we are in the gambling business after all!! Getting the odds worked out is all to strengthen my negotiating position.

My only nightmare would be if the BBJ dropped quickly. The positive publicity generated both locally and nationally would be valuable but it would be hard for me to argue it was a million pounds worth! It wouldn't cost me my job but it would make it a lot more difficult- I'd struggle to get another promotion off the ground and I'd probably have to start filling in paperwork if I gave away a cup of tea!

I will have an even grand with you it will cost you your job if it cops without you insuring it.

Taken

Surely if you are risking a million, you need to do a bit more due dilligence than asking on here.  Which was the key word in the phrase "gambling business" again?

What happens when the players miss the small print and get something close?  Can you imagine how grouchy they will be after hitting quad vs the j high flush. Have you consider the potential for negative publicity as well as the potential for positive publicity?

There's a lot more due diligence Doobs, but my head was exploding with the maths and I know there a lot of very smart people on here that can give me pointers. In order to even get the insurance considered I have to be able to demonstrate the odds and there simply aren't 'charts' out there for underwriters to consult. They'll take my workings and no doubt pull them apart so we can come up with some figures. The due diligence in other areas- extra cameras, staff checks, mikes, cards etc- are extremely easy compared to the maths!!

If I get it off the ground the promotion will be widely publicised and the criteria explained clearer. 'Near Misses' are part of it and would happen no matter what the qualifying conditions were. I've been at a table where a guy thought he had won a BBJ losing with quads because he didn't realise his kicker didn't play and both cards had to. He caused a hell of a fuss, and maybe the casino lost one customer, but it was a minor blip in the greater scheme of things.

Why are you doing the promo?  If it's to increase player numbers you must have some idea about the extra profit generated?  Do you really think that you will get significantly more players by offering a £1m prize than a £100k prize?

This is the key question surely rather then what the odds are.  If we are talking a £200k insurance premium then you need to generate at least this in extra rake for a freerole.  If you predict an extra £250k rake then you are in profit by £50k and if you only predict £150k extra rake then you are down £50k.  I am calculating this all in reference to the cost of the policy as I don't see any business wanting to take this risk uninsured unless you are talking significant extra profit (i.e. rake increases by at least half the cost of the BBJ).  When you start to look at it like this we are talking some significant numbers.  

Also, I'm not sure of your role in this but reading between the lines I am assuming you are the card room manager/supervisor.  If you do convince your employers to assume the risk uninsured and the BBJ drops (despite the apparent long odds these things can happen!) what sort of heat this will bring to you and your position?  Worth considering when you put your neck on the line.  That's not to say don't take risks, but always consider the risk v reward for you personally.

I'm managing to get the cost of the quote down so it's looking a lot more likely. Personally I think we should accept the risk- we are in the gambling business after all!! Getting the odds worked out is all to strengthen my negotiating position.

My only nightmare would be if the BBJ dropped quickly. The positive publicity generated both locally and nationally would be valuable but it would be hard for me to argue it was a million pounds worth! It wouldn't cost me my job but it would make it a lot more difficult- I'd struggle to get another promotion off the ground and I'd probably have to start filling in paperwork if I gave away a cup of tea!

Thanks for the pointers-  FYI it is for a free promotion and the obscene amount is £1,000,000. I just need to convince someone how unlikely it is to get the go ahead!

I know it sounds ridiculous but 20,000,000-1 might not be long enough and they may want the criteria tightening. If you divide by the 10,000 qualifying cash hands per month expected, and the fact they want to run it for 3 months, we suddenly get down to as low as 666-1 which is pretty low to give away a million for nothing!

Any other input gratefully appreciated!

Why don't you just insure against it?

A policy would be relatively cheap, then you don't have to worry about it.

That's the route I'm trying, and you'd be surprised at how expensive it is- I know I was! They're talking about 20% of the sum insured as a premium. If I can't get them down significantly then I have to convince a few people that it's worth us taking the risk.

Thanks for the pointers-  FYI it is for a free promotion and the obscene amount is £1,000,000. I just need to convince someone how unlikely it is to get the go ahead!

I know it sounds ridiculous but 20,000,000-1 might not be long enough and they may want the criteria tightening. If you divide by the 10,000 qualifying cash hands per month expected, and the fact they want to run it for 3 months, we suddenly get down to as low as 666-1 which is pretty low to give away a million for nothing!

Any other input gratefully appreciated!

Lol- not setting up a bad beat story, this is for a bad beat promotion where an obscene amount of cash will be given away. Need to work out the maths of it before I get the go ahead though.

Hi George- been back a week let me catch up!!! You know I'll sort you out anyway.....

Open plea for some help, and promise no comments about maths geeks!

I'm trying to tie down the odds for a VERY specific bad beat situation and could do with some pointers on how to run the maths.

The qualifier is quad twos through eights being beaten by a queen high straight flush or better. Both players must use both hole cards, the losing hand must contain a pair.Full ring game with a minimum 4 players being dealt in. I'm trying to work out the odds on it happening on a single deal and my brain is about to explode.......

Anyone able to point me in the right direction? All help appreciated!

The Something Different Sunday made 4 tables last time but hoping for 6 this as we've been pushing it. All inc of reg fee; the levels are split between 4 5 and 6 card; eg 10 minutes at 100/200 4 card, then 100/200 5 card, 150/300 6 card, 150/300 4 card etc etc. Worked well last time; got a lot of positive feedback.

With enough support will make this a regular addition.

Having played a few of the lower buy in events at DTD with a relatively fast clock I have to say that I'd be in favor of removing antes OR introducing a form of 'courtesy clock' whereby players have a set amount of time to make a decision. One of the problems I've seen (particularly recently) is that players are impressed by DTD and take it 'seriously'. Their only exposure to 'serious' poker is on TV- where drama is created by long tanks and dramatic calls/ folds. For some reason they fail to notice the difference between a two hour clock and a 20 minute one. One hand on my table last Friday at 4k/8k took 7 minutes in a 20 minute structure and terminated in a 'dramatic' two minute tank/ fold......
I've recently been bemoaning that DTD wasn't what it used to be because I used to go for the great structures and quality comps. I've realised that it's not the standard of tournaments but the standard of player that needs polishing up! Maybe a bit of player education might go a long way to speeding things up; possibly penalties introduced for consistently slow play?
I run a room and I've started to warn players for slow play when the clock is 20 minutes or less, with penalties of anything from missing 3 hands to missing a round. I haven't had to impose a penalty yet and it seems to have helped, albeit slightly.
In conclusion- ANYTHING to speed up play!

This is the time for Leethefish to take it down for grinders everywhere! Go on my son!!!

Hardy is one of the most unpleasant people I've ever had the displeasure of sharing a table with. No easy feat in live poker.

Have to agree, if he had made the FT I was taking a poker sabbatical. I know the poker gods like to take the pee but there's a limit.......