hmmmmm snap

Yes i agree most decent players would raise on that flop.

He has never seen me before and probably assumes I am an internet qualifier out of his depth (no jokes please )

Damn you and the last 3 words!

Couldnt make it that easy for you

Yes i agree most decent players would raise on that flop.

He has never seen me before and probably assumes I am an internet qualifier out of his depth (no jokes please )

[77-JJ.]

and if he flat calls the raise and then shoves or even lead out?  Most of the "value" of my hand has gone if a blank comes.

What hand is he going to do that with???

I think at this time he has me on either 6/7, 4/5 or 77-JJ.  (discount these, coz i doubt he views you as tez (let me know if otherwise)). Replace with 33/44/66/57/45/56 imo.

As Tez?  Im not quote clued up on all the blondeisms yet, sorry.

Surely he would expect me to flat call with a set hoping he fires again on the turn.

and if he flat calls the raise and then shoves or even lead out?  Most of the "value" of my hand has gone if a blank comes.

What hand is he going to do that with???

I think at this time he has me on either 6/7, 4/5 or 77-JJ. 

and if he flat calls the raise and then shoves or even lead out?  Most of the "value" of my hand has gone if a blank comes.

Personally I wouldn't want to find myself all-in in this situation. Like you said the chip dynamics are gonna make it difficult to be the one getting it in first - bad. Also to go from 17k to all-in and chasing a draw is - bad. If you raise the flop to 4k what hand are you representing? Would you 4x his bet with the straight or a set? So the bet looks more like air than strength - bad, and gives him the green light to jam the flop with any over-pair. Don't think he floats 1/3 of his stack here, so he prob wont call. Of course your raise could get overs to fold, but you could get overs to fold with atc, so essentially you're bluffing with this hand and hoping he folds if you raise, cos if he calls you're behind - bad. I think your hand has more scope than just to bluff with and you have position here. I prefer the call rather than the raise, your oppo has been quiet so chances are he has some kind of hand - bad. A better hand responds to your raise by jamming and a worse hand responds by folding so raising looks - bad, for lots of reasons.

This was my exact thoughts at the time.  Had I been deeper I would have been extremely tempted to raise with a few to 4 Bet Jam, but with the stack sizes I was thinking I had to flat call.

[Ok seems like everyone is feeling the raise is best way fwd but no one has really mentioned to how much.]

Ok seems like everyone is feeling the raise is best way fwd but no one has really mentioned to how much.

I have a stack of around 15k ish and I think to make a proper raise here would have to be to around 3200-3600 total leaving much around 11k behind.  What worries me here is it leaves me no room or any fold equity to 4 bet here.  If we are both deep enough then obviously the 4 bet is clearly the way fwd and what I would ahve done but I cant do that here.  If i raise and the flop then if Marc raises his only raise really is putting me all in.  Is this what we want?

If I raise and he flat calls what do we do on the turn if he shoves / checks to a scarey / blank card?

yeah we did. minraise (click it back to 2k) let him make it 5/6k then shove. easy peasy.

If I min raise to 2k then surely his next raise will be to around 8k-9k due to the pot size and odds he would be giving a draw? thereofre making shove an auto call for the pennies I have left?

Also Neil, why didn't you call after that or whatever the flop was after the guy raised you then already had his whole stack in the middle in case you pushed when you clearly had an overpair? Once he did that, it was obvious he was on a big draw and you could call and shove/check-shove any blank turn (I can't remember the stack sizes).

As soon as he did that stupid move of putting all his chips over the line I knew he had the comnbi draw and in theory im mathematically behind.  At this stage of the comp (2nd level) I wasnt willing to gamble my entire stack, when probably behind slightly, with so many easy chips at the table. 

If someone went all in on the 2nd level after you have comiited 2k in chips out oif a 15k stack and he flipped 88 and you have  do you call?  Personally I dont.

But the raise was from 600 to 2,400 IIRC and because he's pushed out of turn, you could call for a ruling and I guess the original bet would stand and then you can just shove a blank turn. That way if he binks the turn, you can fold for the rest and if he doesn't you're getting the majority of your stack as a 3/1 fav. The AK/88 scenario isn't a fair comparison here because of the way your opponent bet his stack on the flop.

Ok ill give you the not fair comparison

Didnt ask for the ruling as was certain action you describve would be right.  Problem was I wasnt 100% which combi draw he was on and therefore a lot more scare cards could come.  Was simply just a case of me not 100% knowing what he has and then me wanting to get my chips in at better spots, especially a were three absolute mugs at the table, including one very chipped up.

Ok, fair enough.

Ok seems like everyone is feeling the raise is best way fwd but no one has really mentioned to how much.

I have a stack of around 15k ish and I think to make a proper raise here would have to be to around 3200-3600 total leaving much around 11k behind.  What worries me here is it leaves me no room or any fold equity to 4 bet here.  If we are both deep enough then obviously the 4 bet is clearly the way fwd and what I would ahve done but I cant do that here.  If i raise and the flop then if Marc raises his only raise really is putting me all in.  Is this what we want?

If I raise and he flat calls what do we do on the turn if he shoves / checks to a scarey / blank card?

Moving back here, Goodwin probably won't re-raise all-in here on the flop, since anything he beats won't call. You need to raise enough so that you can commit him with a turn push, he's not going to fire a blank turn after you raise his flop bet, that would just be silly. If you pop him up to the amount you've specified(I did say before 4k because it leaves him with about a PSB left which we stick him in on the turn, only I feel Marc would more likely call a big bet than a smaller one) he's checking the turn pretty much 100% of the time leaving himself with around 10k. Bet something like 5k/6k on any turn card and call a shove. I think your FE on the turn will be decent enough and I haven't see you play super crazy much so it would probably be +ev for you especially because Marc will still have a 30+ BB stack left over at this point.

Isnt this a simialr situation to the other that you mention when I should have called for the ruling?

If I raise on this board and he flat calls and then shoves on a non scare card then what do I do?

Ask Goodwin if he's going to call if you raise?

Thanks

Also Neil, why didn't you call after that or whatever the flop was after the guy raised you then already had his whole stack in the middle in case you pushed when you clearly had an overpair? Once he did that, it was obvious he was on a big draw and you could call and shove/check-shove any blank turn (I can't remember the stack sizes).

As soon as he did that stupid move of putting all his chips over the line I knew he had the comnbi draw and in theory im mathematically behind.  At this stage of the comp (2nd level) I wasnt willing to gamble my entire stack, when probably behind slightly, with so many easy chips at the table. 

If someone went all in on the 2nd level after you have comiited 2k in chips out oif a 15k stack and he flipped 88 and you have  do you call?  Personally I dont.

But the raise was from 600 to 2,400 IIRC and because he's pushed out of turn, you could call for a ruling and I guess the original bet would stand and then you can just shove a blank turn. That way if he binks the turn, you can fold for the rest and if he doesn't you're getting the majority of your stack as a 3/1 fav. The AK/88 scenario isn't a fair comparison here because of the way your opponent bet his stack on the flop.

Ok ill give you the not fair comparison

Didnt ask for the ruling as was certain action you describve would be right.  Problem was I wasnt 100% which combi draw he was on and therefore a lot more scare cards could come.  Was simply just a case of me not 100% knowing what he has and then me wanting to get my chips in at better spots, especially a were three absolute mugs at the table, including one very chipped up.

Also Neil, why didn't you call after that or whatever the flop was after the guy raised you then already had his whole stack in the middle in case you pushed when you clearly had an overpair? Once he did that, it was obvious he was on a big draw and you could call and shove/check-shove any blank turn (I can't remember the stack sizes).

As soon as he did that stupid move of putting all his chips over the line I knew he had the comnbi draw and in theory im mathematically behind.  At this stage of the comp (2nd level) I wasnt willing to gamble my entire stack, when probably behind slightly, with so many easy chips at the table. 

If someone went all in on the 2nd level after you have comiited 2k in chips out oif a 15k stack and he flipped 88 and you have  do you call?  Personally I dont.

Ok seems like everyone is feeling the raise is best way fwd but no one has really mentioned to how much.

I have a stack of around 15k ish and I think to make a proper raise here would have to be to around 3200-3600 total leaving much around 11k behind.  What worries me here is it leaves me no room or any fold equity to 4 bet here.  If we are both deep enough then obviously the 4 bet is clearly the way fwd and what I would ahve done but I cant do that here.  If i raise and the flop then if Marc raises his only raise really is putting me all in.  Is this what we want?

If I raise and he flat calls what do we do on the turn if he shoves / checks to a scarey / blank card?

You working for them? 

lol I wish, just think its rare to find any tipsters with a 100% record

Playing a £75 F/O with 12 players left with 9 getting paid.

It wasnt me in the hand (as went busto in first level) but we want peoples opinion on the hand.

Blinds are 600/1200/100 on a 6 hand table.  Folded round to the small blind who limps and your in BB with  .  You have punished his limp twice before in this comp and you have a stack of 15k compared to his 34k.  You check your option and the flop comes down  .

Whats your move with 3,000 in the pot when SB checks to you?