[ ] yes you played it perfectly

• fold pre

Dont mind opening here- if you genuinley think he's squeezing you should 4 bet

Never flat- just fold

+1

Raising 2k out of 5k from UTG looks stronger than pushing thou

Surely we don't want to look strong here? Push and hope to get a call and take the race to double up, if no callers, we add almost 25% to our stack!!!

I doubt he would raise you light in this spot. As you have said, he is a competant player so would already have calculated the pot odds should you 4 bet. What was his stack at this point?

thank fk for that, was so tilted.

Lol...

NO I WOULDN'T HAVE RE-RAISED U IF U MADE IT 14K AS I THOT U HAD QQ

So it wasn't my bet size that made you think I had QQ?

U MADE THE BET 11000 IWAS IN FOR 4000 AND WITH A/K I FLAT CALLED THINKING U HAD A BIG PAIR

 

So my theory that a smaller raise stunk of strength was correct?
1 question, had I made a raise to 14k would you have re-raised me from the button?
Thanks for the input.....

At this blind level my standard open in an unopened pot would be 10k. In this case, we are isolating a weak player. He won't want to fold, even if you make it 16k (people who open limp, love limp calling). As such, I'd just make it 12k. Whether it be 12 or 14k shouldn't affect the range of hands the players to your left enter the pot with. And if the limper is calling anyway, I think it is prudent to achieve what we want to achieve for the cheapest price possible.

Lloyd I would tend to agree if we're confident of getting heads up but everytime Kev was telling me about hands he was playing they were multi way cos he wasn't getting his bet sizing right.

Not really true George, this was the only hand I spoke to you about on day 2. Day 1 was the QQ hand, but a totally different situation.

I recall you talking to me about another hand where u bluffed on the turn with K high? I'm sure someone limped for 3k and u made it 8500 pre which picked up 3 more callers? Again inflating the pot so you're comitting more of your stack post flop (admittedly your play worked) I think even the sickest flop players would struggle to play hands in position multi way considering pot>>>stack size.

In summary if you pick up some limpers you have to make them pay more imo. Otherwise position or not- your inflating the pot unnecssarily. I'd rather limp with AJ suited then make it 9k from the button if I'm going to pick up 3 callers either way.  In the AJ hand you may have lost even less.

In that hand, after 2 limpers at 1.5k/3k/300 I raised my button to 13k (if memory serves me right) with Q7 then checked to me on a K high flop I bet 20k and only got the maniac to call, and bet him off it on the turn.

maybe i am confused but the reason you raise a pot is to get your oppo making mistakes

by making it 14k as suggested (by better players than me) the guy who calls isnt making a mistake

he is getting 11-4 for the call meaning unless you have an overpair he is getting odds to call

as you know you havent an over pair you want to make him pay to hit so a pot size bet to 22k would of been my bet

but then again the players advocating 14k are IMHO better than me and have better results than me so who am i to argue

Would you make that raise if you had AA or KK?

At this blind level my standard open in an unopened pot would be 10k. In this case, we are isolating a weak player. He won't want to fold, even if you make it 16k (people who open limp, love limp calling). As such, I'd just make it 12k. Whether it be 12 or 14k shouldn't affect the range of hands the players to your left enter the pot with. And if the limper is calling anyway, I think it is prudent to achieve what we want to achieve for the cheapest price possible.

Lloyd I would tend to agree if we're confident of getting heads up but everytime Kev was telling me about hands he was playing they were multi way cos he wasn't getting his bet sizing right.

Not really true George, this was the only hand I spoke to you about on day 2. Day 1 was the QQ hand, but a totally different situation.

Blatch, do you ever lose?!

No.

+1

[no-one would raise me light there....]

I asked Kev to post this hand cos I felt that in general he wasn’t rasing enough pre flop when a limper was in the hand

OK given this station I guess it wouldn’t matter but Kev was making raises to 3* and playing a lot of hands multi way. Surely raising with AJ suited on the button is to try and get the hand heads up and isolate the weak player?

Kev has said he’s happy to play these multi handed with the lead. However you’re not going to get the JJ4 too often with AJ are you?

I think everyone at the table was playing this guy slightly differently to the way they would have played normally. Had it been a limp from another player I would  have raised to 13k, or flatted. Btw I was in 4th position not the button and had I got stiff resistance behind me, I have an easy fold as no-one would raise me light there....

Why not?

Looks like a good spot for a shove from a 40k ish stack with plenty of FE and 20k+ in the middle.

That wasn't going to happen!

I asked Kev to post this hand cos I felt that in general he wasn’t rasing enough pre flop when a limper was in the hand

OK given this station I guess it wouldn’t matter but Kev was making raises to 3* and playing a lot of hands multi way. Surely raising with AJ suited on the button is to try and get the hand heads up and isolate the weak player?

Kev has said he’s happy to play these multi handed with the lead. However you’re not going to get the JJ4 too often with AJ are you?

I think everyone at the table was playing this guy slightly differently to the way they would have played normally. Had it been a limp from another player I would  have raised to 13k, or flatted. Btw I was in 4th position not the button and had I got stiff resistance behind me, I have an easy fold as no-one would raise me light there....

Ok, thanks for the input guys. My actual raise was to 11k and the reasons were as follows:-
It's my standard raise when opening at this blind level (I personally like to keep my raises uniform, no criticism of anyone who doesn't). I do, however, increase my initial raise if there has been a limper, to 13k (ish).
The entire table knew that I would have to have a hand to raise the fish, and I hoped that keeping it as low as I did screamed of strength not weakness.   isn't a hand I want to get involved with to a raise from behind.
Although I believe that I was stronger than 90% of the limpers range (even though he limped from such early position!), I would still be more comfortable keeping the pot as small as possible, even in position, until I hit and am sure Im ahead. Once I hit, as long as he had any piece of it he was going to pay me to the river, I'm sure 'Douche' shares my opinion on that!!
As it turns out, I got one further caller who told me he had AK (button and chip leader), but was wary of my raise, therefore didn't re-raise.
The result was a   flop which sounds great until the turn card was   and the river   and Mr Maniac turns over   following a river value bet. Maybe this last sentance should have been put in another part of the forum, titled 'Shafted again @ DTD'!!!! lol

If there is anything more that you can add, I would be very appreciative, always looking for good advice.......

hi kev. i cant remember, did you value bet each street? i remember at the time thinking that this guy would've played any pair or a jack the same as he played the flush.

for the others, this guy was the epitome of calling station. since joining our table he'd been limping in pots regardless of position and turning up with almost any two and carrying on with any pair. he was running like a usain bolt though so had built a decent stack.

Yes mate, I bet 15k on the flop, 20k on the turn and 20k on the river. Not my usual bet sizing, but that in hindsight saved me from going broke!!!!

Ok, thanks for the input guys. My actual raise was to 11k and the reasons were as follows:-
It's my standard raise when opening at this blind level (I personally like to keep my raises uniform, no criticism of anyone who doesn't). I do, however, increase my initial raise if there has been a limper, to 13k (ish).

I'm not getting your logic here

you keep your raises uniform, if there's been a limper this uniform size is about 13k, if opening it's 11k

in this hand there's been a limper so you decide to make it 11k. this is not keeping things uniform

confused I am

I knew someone would pick up on this....

On this occasion I chose to keep my raise as small as possible, to try to convey to the rest of the table that I had a much stronger hand than I actually did. I believe that even if I had raised to 20k the limper would have called. A round of the button earlier, I had made my usual raise following a limp in the same place, and got re-raised from the chip leader on my right and had to fold, I just decided to change things a little, hence this post. Im trying to find out whether my theory is correct or flawed....