blonde poker forum
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
July 28, 2025, 02:59:26 AM

Login with username, password and session length
Search:     Advanced search
2262527 Posts in 66609 Topics by 16991 Members
Latest Member: nolankerwin
* Home Help Arcade Search Calendar Guidelines Login Register
+  blonde poker forum
|-+  Poker Forums
| |-+  Poker Hand Analysis
| | |-+  Tricky one.
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: 1 [2] Go Down Print
Author Topic: Tricky one.  (Read 3144 times)
AlexMartin
spewtards r us
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8039


rat+rabbiting society of herts- future champ


View Profile WWW
« Reply #15 on: December 27, 2007, 11:34:37 AM »

What is your c - bet frequency? I think this is a good flop to check behind. 27 / 14 / 4 isn't THAT crazy.

Cbet frequency high, prolly 80% odd. 27/14/4 is over 200k but i guess villain doesnt have that many and its prolly skewed a lot higher for the limited sample he has on me. Interested to know why you check behind on this board? I did want to protect my hand but is there a better alternative?
Logged
LuckyLloyd
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 625



View Profile WWW
« Reply #16 on: December 27, 2007, 12:18:14 PM »

What is your c - bet frequency? I think this is a good flop to check behind. 27 / 14 / 4 isn't THAT crazy.

Cbet frequency high, prolly 80% odd. 27/14/4 is over 200k but i guess villain doesnt have that many and its prolly skewed a lot higher for the limited sample he has on me. Interested to know why you check behind on this board? I did want to protect my hand but is there a better alternative?

Well, it's just that I think if we get heaps of money in here the bottom of his range for getting it in is going to be a flushdraw (and often with the A or Q of diamonds which makes it a virtual flip). If you are playing aggressively he is just going to be less likely to make a tough fold of the toppest pair on this board. So, we might think lets protect our hand from draws but, meh - he's not folding any of those draws anyway.

This board is quite bad for him to make a move with complete air if you check - raise him. Just because it is a bad texture for you to make big folds on. So, assuming he is a reg, he will probably have a huge range of hands that he defended preflop with that just check - fold for one bet here. However, if you check behind, you probably can get it in so much better and extract a lot of value on the turn when he decides to check - call one pair or Ace - high hands you beat as bluff catchers.

He'll also lead at a lot of draw completing turns when he doesn't actually have the draw and you can catch a ton of bluffs by just calling a barrell or two in position.

Assuming we are properly rolled I much prefer thinking about things from a perspective of value rather then hand protection. Ya sure, we may see an Ace or a diamond peel on the turn and get some money in bad - but we can also see those cards peel off and catch some bluffed money. Overall, I think there has to be higher EV from getting money in on the turn than the flop.
Logged

"All glory comes from daring to begin" - Eugene F. Ware.
AlexMartin
spewtards r us
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8039


rat+rabbiting society of herts- future champ


View Profile WWW
« Reply #17 on: December 27, 2007, 03:46:58 PM »

Quote from: [url=http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=1198
Alex[/url] Martin link=topic=29886.msg615124#msg615124 date=1198755277]
What is your c - bet frequency? I think this is a good flop to check behind. 27 / 14 / 4 isn't THAT crazy.

Cbet frequency high, prolly 80% odd. 27/14/4 is over 200k but i guess villain doesnt have that many and its prolly skewed a lot higher for the limited sample he has on me. Interested to know why you check behind on this board? I did want to protect my hand but is there a better alternative?

Well, it's just that I think if we get heaps of money in here the bottom of his range for getting it in is going to be a flushdraw (and often with the A or Q of diamonds which makes it a virtual flip). If you are playing aggressively he is just going to be less likely to make a tough fold of the toppest pair on this board. So, we might think lets protect our hand from draws but, meh - he's not folding any of those draws anyway.

This board is quite bad for him to make a move with complete air if you check - raise him. Just because it is a bad texture for you to make big folds on. So, assuming he is a reg, he will probably have a huge range of hands that he defended preflop with that just check - fold for one bet here. However, if you check behind, you probably can get it in so much better and extract a lot of value on the turn when he decides to check - call one pair or Ace - high hands you beat as bluff catchers.

He'll also lead at a lot of draw completing turns when he doesn't actually have the draw and you can catch a ton of bluffs by just calling a barrell or two in position.

Assuming we are properly rolled I much prefer thinking about things from a perspective of value rather then hand protection. Ya sure, we may see an Ace or a diamond peel on the turn and get some money in bad - but we can also see those cards peel off and catch some bluffed money. Overall, I think there has to be higher EV from getting money in on the turn than the flop.

WRT to this hand specifically, i would guess that over a large sample playing this hand more sensitively in the way you describe would make more money. But checking after i took the lead preflop just isnt in my game. I always like to give my opponents what they expect.
I guess this comes down to a style choice and what you are personally happy with. I like betting if i was leading pre, almost regardless of my hand but with some regard to board texture. Multitabling im not happy to put myself in tricky situations where im making judgement calls and effectively calling down bluffs and calling relatively thin, the situations you describe above. Your post reminds me a lot of the MSNL posts on 2+2 and is definitely a more flexible strategy, i guess betting just fits my metagame tighter. cheers for response and analysis.
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.176 seconds with 20 queries.