Ace high

[Cottonbud]

we are repping like 88-JJ pretty strong with the backraise and you think a good reg folds QQ/AK?  No

Yeah thats fine, now you've explained instead of making a dumbass comment. But you wanna flip with AK this deeply stacked in a torny seems retarded to me.

[Rupert]

17043 in the pot, 10563 to call, means we need 38.2% to call:

   equity    win    tie          pots won    pots tied   
Hand 0:    43.960%     43.76%    00.20%         215821548       964008.00   { AKo }
Hand 1:    56.040%     55.84%    00.20%         275393988       964008.00   { JJ-88 }

[ ] good reg will be passing up 5.5% edge

[Cottonbud]

17043 in the pot, 10563 to call, means we need 38.2% to call:

   equity    win    tie          pots won    pots tied   
Hand 0:    43.960%     43.76%    00.20%         215821548       964008.00   { AKo }
Hand 1:    56.040%     55.84%    00.20%         275393988       964008.00   { JJ-88 }

[ ] good reg will be passing up 5.5% edge

See you can make a good post with the help of poker stove. I have some interesting hands of my own to post either tonight or tomorrow from 6max NL cash games so if your interested in making a valuable comment on them please feel free.

[MANTIS01]

Think crucial stage in the hand is me flatting pre. Should I always be 3 betting here?

The only reason to overcall a premium hand is to deceive everybody else at the table about the strength of our hand and to generate further action behind. skolsuper says villain knows for a fact we don't have premium because of our overcall, and rupert says we are repping a medium pair. This makes overcalling with premium a blindingly good and deceptive move under the right circumstances.

Are these the right circumstances? The problems start if we agree with Trigg who says a 3-bet behind in this spot is never a steal. And the consensus is that this is so. The only reason to overcall premium is to disguise our strength and generate action behind yet any action behind means we're beat. So yeah, if players behind aren't 3-bet squeezing then making a play that profits from players behind 3-bet squeezing makes zero sense. Considering UTG is playing like a tard I think 3-betting his open yourself is the only viable option under the circumstances.

[NoflopsHomer]

I hate 3betting pre, are we 3-bet folding?  What do we do if we get jammed on or flatted behind us? We'd have to c/f a lot of flops which makes calling the initial raise a lot better this deep.

Once we've flatted and get squeezed, none of the options seems that great. Flatting is horrible, we're OOP and decent opponents never stack off with worse on the occasions we do hit. Shoving doesn't seem that great either so folding is probably the least worst option.

I think the hand would be way more interesting if we had Queens here, now that does become a 'hate life' spot.

[MANTIS01]

I hate 3betting pre, are we 3-bet folding?  What do we do if we get jammed on or flatted behind us? We'd have to c/f a lot of flops which makes calling the initial raise a lot better this deep.

Once we've flatted and get squeezed, none of the options seems that great. Flatting is horrible, we're OOP and decent opponents never stack off with worse on the occasions we do hit. Shoving doesn't seem that great either so folding is probably the least worst option.

I think the hand would be way more interesting if we had Queens here, now that does become a 'hate life' spot.

You hate 3betting pre in case we get jammed or flatted behind? In reality how likely is that given the action? And there's only 2 players who could have position on us so it's very unlikely we will in fact c/f a lot of flops. And if we say a 3bet behind our flat beats us then a 4bet certainly beats us. Flatting only encourages players behind to get involved in a big multi-way pot with a wide range. So then if we miss we'll fold and if we hit...one pair may well not be good enough anymore. The only person who realistically jams our 3bet without the goods is the UTG opener who has been described rather eloquently as a "tard".

[Rupert]

well 3 betting we fold out every worse hand and keep in every better.  so achieves just about everything we don't want to achieve

[Cottonbud]

I tank shoved. Phat snapped with Kings. UTG snapped with AQ

[ ] 3-betting UTG sure did make him pass the worst hand

[Rupert]

true, although we don't really know much about villain before the hand so i'd give him credit for folding.

agree to disagree i suppose

[outragous76]

we are repping like 88-JJ pretty strong with the backraise and you think a good reg folds QQ/AK?  No

whoaaaaaa

how did no-one pull that up!

[Royal Flush]

we are repping like 88-JJ pretty strong with the backraise and you think a good reg folds QQ/AK?  No

whoaaaaaa

how did no-one pull that up!

It's called a pisstake.

Mantis you are forgetting the times there is no 3b, we flop a pair and get paiiiid

[NigDawG]

if utg is such a tard then just 3b with intentions of getting it in vs him

[MANTIS01]

we are repping like 88-JJ pretty strong with the backraise and you think a good reg folds QQ/AK?  No

whoaaaaaa

how did no-one pull that up!

It's called a pisstake.

Mantis you are forgetting the times there is no 3b, we flop a pair and get paiiiid

And hence the problem. When you flop a pair in the big multi-way pot you've created you think you're getting paiiid. My hand is so underrepped I've just gotta get my stack in cos I'm getting paiiid...oh wait. And sorry but lol at a 3bet folds out every worse hand Rupert cos villain 3bets and 2 players jam worse.

[Rupert]

Well personally I like to not be results orientated/work off incomplete information rather than look at their hands and say what we should have done

[MANTIS01]

Well personally I like to not be results orientated/work off incomplete information rather than look at their hands and say what we should have done

Well do you need to look at their hands/be results orientated to say after UTG raise, call, reraise, players yet to act behind holding pp's will fold? I would say you can easily make that prediction from the action alone. So your statement 3betting keeps in every better hand isn't true...even if you think your statement nobody calls with worse is...which it isn't.