DTD 150 - 2 Basic Hands

[bobAlike]

I'd like constructive opinion with 2 v basic hands from the this weekends 150 DtD Deepstack.
No real history with either of the players involved.

Were are 5 handed with 2 players short stacked circa 600k each.

Payout Structure:
1st £14,867
2nd £8,629
3rd ££5,215
4th £3,690
5th £2,744

Hand 1

5 Handed Blinds 25k/50k 5k ante
Me UTG with 2.3m (ish)
Gary SB with 545k

Me bet to 140k with
Fold to Gary who after a short think shoves all in

Is this a simple call or simple fold?

Hand 2


5 Handed Blinds 30k/60k 10k ante
Me BB with 2.1m
Shoahebe Button with +2.7m

Folds to Shoahebe who bets 110k
I 3 bet to 330k holding 88

Shoahebe with no hesitation 4bets setting me in.

Again simple call or fold?

No real reads other than, he hasn't effectively  4 bet shoved on anybody with a decent stack that I've seen.


I know they only basic situations but I'd really like input.

Thanks

[George2Loose]

Think u can find a fold or call in hand 1.

Peel hand 2. U pretty much have to fold now.

Hand 2 is deffo a spot where u should have a plan when he 4 bets

[bobAlike]

Think u can find a fold or call in hand 1.

Peel hand 2. U pretty much have to fold now.

Hand 2 is deffo a spot where u should have a plan when he 4 bets

I did have a plan for hand 2, shove against his 4bet. Just didn't expect him to commit 3/4 of his chips shoving on me.

[George2Loose]

Think u can find a fold or call in hand 1.

Peel hand 2. U pretty much have to fold now.

Hand 2 is deffo a spot where u should have a plan when he 4 bets

I did have a plan for hand 2, shove against his 4bet. Just didn't expect him to commit 3/4 of his chips shoving on me.

Think 5 bet jamming 88 in this spot is pretty bad. Call pre

[DMorgan]

First hand you opened too big - no more than a minraise needed. Now that you've made it 140k theres 737.5k in there and its 405k to call so you're getting 1.82 to 1 to call for which you need ~35.5% equity vs his jamming range to call. If he's going to be really tight here and you always have 3 outs then its a fold - once you start putting some suited broadways, 66 and 55 in there it becomes more of a call.

Then you can just use pokerstove to create a breakeven range vs which we can call which is this:


   equity    win    tie          pots won    pots tied   
Hand 0:    35.475%     33.90%    01.57%          56305746      2615106.00   { Ac7c }
Hand 1:    64.525%     62.95%    01.57%         104557530      2615106.00   { 88+, A9s+, KQs, AJo+, KQo }

So if he's jamming 88+, A9s+, KQs, AJo+, KQo then the call is chipEV breakeven. Tighter than that its a fold, looser its call.  I'd say he's almost certainly lighter than that but table dynamics, history etc will let you know either way.



Second one, well first of all don't 3bet without a plan. The open size is wrong too, HH says he has raised less than min but I would almost certainly just fold. Without reads to that effect I doubt he's ever light especially with his timing indicating that he hasn't really got a decision.

[MANTIS01]

Alright bud. Looked like u were getting QQ a lot. Made me lol.

Hand 1. For me whether I even open this hand is based on how the game is flowing and what my image is like. I like teh theory don't give ur oppo a good shoving spot, and with 2x600k behind it's a good spot for both if ur range is medium wide. I would hope to have a solid image here myself, cough, so would click open for 100k saving 40k and creating a smaller less enticing pot. Don't think this changes shorties decision much and happy to play vs the blinds in position if necessary. A solid image makes it an easy fold to the jam for me. If I'd been active lately and/or shorties have shown they are happy to jam I would just muck cos knowing ur raise folding in this situation is meh with a decent hand. Only compounding a problem imo.

Hand 2. Like the other one you say there's no history but it's 5-handed so there must be plenty of general history. How likely is the dude to be stepping out of line here, what's his opening range, and what's ur 3betting range gonna look like. Again from solid image I'm gonna raise here as the equity in my hand is better pre but would fold to a jam. More active then I would flat and feel pretty weak about it too but so what we could hit a set right?

Thing that sticks out for me is ur looking at hands rather than situations, images, and ranges. After playing for few hours there's good histroy ref your standing in the game. Btw this is prob wrong advice. I am sorry

[DMorgan]

you say there's no history but it's 5-handed so there must be plenty of general history

Yeah theres no way you can be 5-handed and not have a general idea of his approach to this final table. You should be paying attention to every hand - especially on a final table.

[bobAlike]

you say there's no history but it's 5-handed so there must be plenty of general history

Yeah theres no way you can be 5-handed and not have a general idea of his approach to this final table. You should be paying attention to every hand - especially on a final table.

I never got drawn on the same table as Wadey, Sho or Gary all through the day until the FT. After 1 1/4 hours of play it was obv that Wadey was the most active with Sho not far behind but very measured in his approach, Gary was the most desparate. I don't recall Sho betting out the way he did, during this hand, in any other hand. I did have a plan but it didn't work out. I made a mistake in thinking he wouldn't come back at me the way he did and thats why I folded.

The final table was pretty standard play wise with most initial 2 - 3x BB getting through. I tried this approach as much as I could with some success but didn't feel comfortable with the cards being dealt. What I did deduce, in simple terms, was Wadey pretty much raised and called with any 2, Sho's range was narrower who didn't need too get silly, Gary and the other short stack were getting desparate and would certainly shove quite light with circa 11 BB's.

I called Gary's shove based on 3 facts, 1 he was short and desparate, 2 it was only 400k more to win a 1m+ pot and 3 I got him off a 3 hands previously. So assumed he was getting peed off with me.

I appreciate the advice all and even yours Mantis maybe thats where I've been going wrong all this time

Oh and yes Mantis I actually had QQ 4 times raised pre each time. 3 times uncontested and 1 time folded to a 3 bet shove to the most obvious pair of aces I've ever seen played and he showed me

[MANTIS01]

Bet u couldn't believe the AA.

If shorties desperate and one is pissed off at you I prob open fold the A-7 which is no doubt nit like. What did he have? Wp thou mate, was rooting for you.

[TL900]

First hand you opened too big - no more than a minraise needed. Now that you've made it 140k theres 737.5k in there and its 405k to call so you're getting 1.82 to 1 to call for which you need ~35.5% equity vs his jamming range to call. If he's going to be really tight here and you always have 3 outs then its a fold - once you start putting some suited broadways, 66 and 55 in there it becomes more of a call.

Then you can just use pokerstove to create a breakeven range vs which we can call which is this:


   equity    win    tie          pots won    pots tied   
Hand 0:    35.475%     33.90%    01.57%          56305746      2615106.00   { Ac7c }
Hand 1:    64.525%     62.95%    01.57%         104557530      2615106.00   { 88+, A9s+, KQs, AJo+, KQo }

So if he's jamming 88+, A9s+, KQs, AJo+, KQo then the call is chipEV breakeven. Tighter than that its a fold, looser its call.  I'd say he's almost certainly lighter than that but table dynamics, history etc will let you know either way.



Second one, well first of all don't 3bet without a plan. The open size is wrong too, HH says he has raised less than min but I would almost certainly just fold. Without reads to that effect I doubt he's ever light especially with his timing indicating that he hasn't really got a decision.

this.

[bobAlike]

Bet u couldn't believe the AA.

If shorties desperate and one is pissed off at you I prob open fold the A-7 which is no doubt nit like. What did he have? Wp thou mate, was rooting for you.

Thanks mate he had A10hh and hit a 10. I feel I played really well on the whole with only those 2 hands on my mind.

Yes the AA hand was nice at the time for reasons not for this thread, remind me to tell you if I see you.
Having AA 3 other times was nice too.

[cambridgealex]

1) Fold

2) Peel pre, don't 3b to fold 88 ever, either peel, or 3b/call

Reasons all posted above.

[BorntoBubble]

a) after making it 140K i think i make a crying call agaisnt his range i think your getting a good enough price.
Sub note if you had of made it 100K i then think its a pass. that extra 40K makes such a big difference at this stage its almost a whole big blind and most people will do the same thing facing a min raise then facing a 2.5x - 3 x type raise. Therefore in analysis i would say if you are going to open this hand you can min raise fold.

Again depending on table dynamic i kind of would more prefer the thinking if i min raise her and the Villan on the BB jams what am i going to do? And then consider how often is he going to jam, If my answers are i am going to fold to the jam and he is going to be jamming say 5-15% of his range? (Villian dependant obviously) then i dont like the open. Wait for better spots!

b) i think i just flat the min raise from the button here and play the hand post flop your both relatively deep for this stage.

If you do 3 bet i personally would make it smaller. If you make it smaller he can then 4 bet lighter without shoving and you can decide whether to ship or fold. I think with your 3 bet sizeing it makes it difficult to 4 bet without going all in