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Author Topic: NFL 2016 thread  (Read 2490 times)
TightEnd
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« Reply #135 on: April 30, 2016, 11:44:48 AM »


Elliott might well be OROTY but Dallas are still one of four teams who can win their division. That to me is the problem.

i don't understand the problem? that's the same for any division

washington are improving fast. drafting really really well, smart man is their GM
giants are going to be decent. loved the pick of sterling shepard
eagles going to be competitive and more so if wentz becomes the franchise qb they hope

whatever we did at pick 4 doesn't change that. nfl east always going to be a bun fight, any year

there really wasn't a defensive player at 4 that would make the impact elliott will.
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Tal
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« Reply #136 on: April 30, 2016, 11:59:52 AM »


Elliott might well be OROTY but Dallas are still one of four teams who can win their division. That to me is the problem.

i don't understand the problem? that's the same for any division

washington are improving fast. drafting really really well, smart man is their GM
giants are going to be decent. loved the pick of sterling shepard
eagles going to be competitive and more so if wentz becomes the franchise qb they hope

whatever we did at pick 4 doesn't change that. nfl east always going to be a bun fight, any year

there really wasn't a defensive player at 4 that would make the impact elliott will.

Fair enough.

Bosa was the guy for me but he'd gone. I would have gone Ramsey because you play Kirk Cousins twice a year and Eli twice a year and a CB/S with that much talent is going to find stray passes.
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« Reply #137 on: April 30, 2016, 12:06:58 PM »

Ramsey would have been a perfectly understandable pick but not the slam dunk a real 20 sacks a year pass rush star would have been but there wasn't one in this draft.

I think he is a safety though, not a shutdown corner. We drafted a safety/corner hybrid number 1 last year

I think i know Elliott will be a star, i'm not sure Ramsey would be at cornerback. the jags are playing him at cornerback

Ramsey has bricks for hands, very few interceptions. If he is patrick peterson or richard sherman, then great. lets see

if there was a deion sanders, demarcus ware, michael strahan, jj watt, von miller etc etc sitting there and we passed on him for a running back however good the running back might be then i'd be pretty unhappy.
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bobby1
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« Reply #138 on: April 30, 2016, 01:46:27 PM »

Tal and I were chatting about this last night Rich, the way teams approach the draft now is so different to the days of 'take the best man on the board when it gets to your pick'  and improve depth/value of your squad.

The tendency now just seems to be 'what do we need now' and then just draft to that need irrespective of the value you are getting with that pick, so mainly selecting players with a short term view. A couple of things struck me as quite odd (apart from trading up to take a kicker in the 2nd round that is), firstly Houston traded up one spot to take a WR at pick 21 when there was always going to be a run for WR in the 20-30 range and the general consensus was there really was no WR that stood out. It surely makes more sense to just sit to your turn and then take the best one on your board, not see who is the best on your board 1 pick earlier and then talk yourself into believing teams might trade over you and take that player. If he goes he goes, you then have a new best player on the board and take that guy and don't have to pay the price by giving away later picks to do that.

On top of that they did the same thing again in round 2, they traded up 2 spots with Atlanta to take a center who can also play guard. The two teams in front of them at the time they traded form that pick were the Jets and Atlanta who have Mangold and Alex Mack as their centers, two of the best in the game. Almost no way either of those 2 teams take a center with the picks they have before you (ok, a very small chance Jets might want to take someone to fit in behind Mangold as they struggled when he was injured last year but nobody ever expected Jets to be taking center here did they) Houston have traded up two spots to jump teams that were not going to take 'their' guy anyway and again given up a pick lower down to do that.

Back on the point of taking best players and not what you think you need now The Jets have taken another QB with their 2nd round pick. Last year they also took a QB  who is still with them. So 2 years on the trot they have taken a QB because they have some need there well above where they should be drafted. They now have Petty and Hakenberg on their squad for picks above their worth and are talking like Geno Smith will start if Fitz doesn't re sign. That would be happening if they hadn't reached for those 2 QB's anyway. Contrast that to The Bears who were again supposed to be taking a QB in behind Cutler but didn't fall for that and drafted down to let the ones that were happy to move up move up, got players in positions they wanted anyway lower down and stocked up extra picks too.

This draft what we need this year instead of best players can't work out long term can it? ( bar obv top QB's being targetted at the very top but even then the teams have given up an awful lot to take one player because they need that type now)



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TightEnd
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« Reply #139 on: April 30, 2016, 01:52:38 PM »

well its an art not a science. best player available with "need" breaking ties seems reasonable to me.

the best teams look at the roster in a couple of years time, what contracts are expiring etc and draft accordingly

i am not sure of you are agreeing with me or not. i liked the elliott pick, wasn't a need, definitely a top five talent in the draft. there wan't a "need" rusher there, so take best player available and go from there

we haven't even talked the buccs trading up for a kicker in the second round!

you see all sorts of stuff every year, thats the fascination of it.

the hoston trade up was odd. I loved Washington taking Doctson straight after. Hands down a better player than Fuller
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bobby1
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« Reply #140 on: April 30, 2016, 02:10:32 PM »

I wasn't really thinking about The Cowboys here more a general approach thru the league. I thought they would take Elliot tho but I didn't think that was deffo the best way for them to go.

Was interesting to hear someone saying that Jaylon Smith was a really good pick as it was taking a top 10 player for next year for a 2nd round pick this year. If he has to sit the season out he is still going to be a good player for them and that kinda backs up the take the best player on the board approach because he was value having fallen so far. Elliot looks the complete back tho and does look the perfect fit.
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« Reply #141 on: April 30, 2016, 02:18:31 PM »

my beef was really that we make a habit of

a) taking medical redshirts
b) taking character risks and thinking we can sort young kids out
c) taking projects

this puts a lot of variables into the draft that you don't need to put into an already quite random process

the hit rate on these three categories is consistently less than 50% for us. sean lee was a recent hit, many more weren't

a team like the ravens, who are consistently amongst the best drafters, rarely trade, take the safe picks every time and always draft well. mind you, you could then mention ray lewis to me, who was clearly a high risk pick

Will be happy if Jaylon turns into an all-pro, but the inconsistency of drafting elliott to help win now with a redshirt next who might never play again is quite stark 
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bobby1
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« Reply #142 on: April 30, 2016, 02:38:46 PM »

my beef was really that we make a habit of

a) taking medical redshirts
b) taking character risks and thinking we can sort young kids out
c) taking projects

this puts a lot of variables into the draft that you don't need to put into an already quite random process

the hit rate on these three categories is consistently less than 50% for us. sean lee was a recent hit, many more weren't

a team like the ravens, who are consistently amongst the best drafters, rarely trade, take the safe picks every time and always draft well. mind you, you could then mention ray lewis to me, who was clearly a high risk pick

Will be happy if Jaylon turns into an all-pro, but the inconsistency of drafting elliott to help win now with a redshirt next who might never play again is quite stark 

I deffo see your point there.
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« Reply #143 on: April 30, 2016, 06:41:19 PM »

Bengals bag Billings. Cracking pick at #124 would of been happy with him second round tbh
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« Reply #144 on: April 30, 2016, 07:54:15 PM »

Peko and Atkins are good character guys for Billings to learn from.Great draft so far on paper for cincy.
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« Reply #145 on: April 30, 2016, 08:07:22 PM »

Peko and Atkins are good character guys for Billings to learn from.Great draft so far on paper for cincy.

Inside the jungle podcast were very keen on Billings. So I'm very happy and putting him along side Atkins especially is a great thing. Westerman another seemingly well chosen player for us. Although already saying Bodine is the starting center

Cowboys have their Romo replacement in Dak Prescott at 135 :|

Browns take their 4th WR
« Last Edit: April 30, 2016, 08:33:13 PM by Cavey007 » Logged
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« Reply #146 on: April 30, 2016, 08:24:30 PM »

Did anyone see the fans forum with Kirk Cousins the other day?

What an engaging, open and interesting guy. Seemed to answer difficult questions fully and honestly.

So few of the cliches NFL players come up with in situations like that. Worth watching on catch up if you missed it.

Made me want to root for the Redskins next season.
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« Reply #147 on: April 30, 2016, 08:59:39 PM »

I'm amazed the Raiders traded up to get Cook. Why? 4th rounder and a 5th rounder for a backup?
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« Reply #148 on: April 30, 2016, 10:13:23 PM »

I'm amazed the Raiders traded up to get Cook. Why? 4th rounder and a 5th rounder for a backup?

It looks like a strange move, I admit. But the more I think about it, the more it makes sense.

Matt McGloin, our current backup, is a restricted free agent (RFA). My understanding of how it works is there's a RFA minimum salary for next season, but if another team wants to sign him then we can either choose to match their offer, or let him go for a 2nd round pick. He's a solid backup but not worth anywhere near a 2nd round pick, so chances are that nobody will take him and he'll be our backup next year for the RFA price, with Connor Cook as our 3rd string QB to develop and compete for the backup job in preseason.

It's highly unlikely that anyone takes McGloin given the price. Guy's probably worth like a 5th rounder to a team suddenly in need of a QB when shit hits the fan during the season, but there's no way we get a 2nd rounder for him. Drafting Cook means we can try to get something for McGloin before he becomes a free agent, with Cook to become the backup long term/possibly win the job in preseason.

This move is more to do with 2017 onwards. We have to pay McGloin next year, so we'll probably let him go after this season if Connor Cook is good enough to be the backup going forwards, save some money and get a late compensatory pick for McGloin (probably making up for the 5th rounder we gave up this year to trade up). Worst case scenario, we still have the option to keep a solid backup in McGloin on the 2017 roster if things don't work out with Cook.

I like McGloin, so it's a shame that drafting Cook means this is probably his last season as a Raider. But this is a cap move with some decent upside if we can develop Cook and get a decent pick for him in a few years, or upgrade the backup QB spot.
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