Luton £750: Your thoughts please

[TightEnd]

I have 12,000..blinds are 200-400

Early position raiser makes it 1200 to go. Solid hand values shown by this aware player all night

I am in the SB with  , and it is folded to me...I call. 1800 in the pot

We both see a flop of 

 

I check hoping he will continuation bet and I will raise.

He checks behind

Turn comes

 

I lead out 2,000 to see where I am....I am obviously hoping he has an overpair, but he could just as easily have AK or something, and I want to find out about clubs too


He dwells and dwells and then flat calls. At this point I am thinking maybe the bare . I believe I would have seen more action if he had an overpair

River is 

5,800 in the pot and I lead again for 3,000 although I did think at the time that maybe check call was the best option. Spidey senses were tingling!

He dwells and dwells again and reraises me another 3,000

I have to call 3,000 into a 14,800 pot so its a very milky bet

I have by now 7,000 or so left. Calling and losing leaves me with 10xbb

I call but being offered those odds at the end I have to call

He flips for the top set


He's played it nice and cute and got maximum value

What do you think of the way I played it?

[NoflopsHomer]

I think you should check the river, he's unlikely to have an overpair because there's no bet on the flop or raise on the turn, so AA, KK, QQ and JJ are very unlikey. 88 and 99 are also unlikely since he'd bet the flop to find out where he was, but they might call the turn, as would a high club. If you check the river, it gives the high club a chance to bluff, since a bet from you here will chase him away. The way he has played the hand to the turn, he can only have a monster or garbage therefore a check will maximise the profits when your ahead and he bluffs and minimise them when you're behind.

Incidentally if he'd been more aggressive on the flop or the turn, would you have done all your chips?

[Pab]

Im pretty sure i would have done all my chips on the flop and would be happy to go out in that manner. Flopping a set is a well disguised very strong hand and would not let a scare card drop by checking the flop and essentially killing my action. If your plan was to check raise the flop then it gives a person with AA, KK an escape route as they would see your check-raise as very strong. If you lead at the pot, get raised then the guy with AA will find it very hard to fold given he has now a large chunk of chips invested in the pot.

Once the 3rd club drops on the turn and you are now out of position, i see no reason at all to lead at the pot essentially building it and making it harder for you to get away from your hand. After getting called on the turn I dont comprehend putting more chips into the pot on the river and think you could still have saved 3k by not calling his raise. What possible hands will he minimum raise on the river with? i think the answer is every hand that beats you, and none that you beat.

Sorry to sound over critical, but i think your lack of agression on flops in similar situations could potentially be costing you a lot of chips. I know this time you would have busted but its one of those things, set over set is very uncommon and in tournaments ill take my chances with a set every time in order to keep accumulating chips

[SupaMonkey]

Pab given that tighty has checked the flop, if he checks the turn and his opponent fires, what would you do then?

[NoflopsHomer]

Pab given that tighty has checked the flop, if he checks the turn and his opponent fires, what would you do then?

It would an awful play to check a set twice on a 3 club board. We have a monster! Why would you want to check?

[NoflopsHomer]

One thing I do disagree with is that he got maximum value, he had top set vs middle set and didn't get all your chips!!!

[boldie]

I think you should check the river, he's unlikely to have an overpair because there's no bet on the flop or raise on the turn, so AA, KK, QQ and JJ are very unlikey. 88 and 99 are also unlikely since he'd bet the flop to find out where he was, but they might call the turn, as would a high club. If you check the river, it gives the high club a chance to bluff, since a bet from you here will chase him away. The way he has played the hand to the turn, he can only have a monster or garbage therefore a check will maximise the profits when your ahead and he bluffs and minimise them when you're behind.

Incidentally if he'd been more aggressive on the flop or the turn, would you have done all your chips?

I'd agree with this...check the river. if he then bets for 3k you can call or reraise..making you look stronger..or flat call if your spidey senses are tingling..that would have saved you 3k

[Pab]

Pab given that tighty has checked the flop, if he checks the turn and his opponent fires, what would you do then?

If you check, you still probably have to pay him off but you are controlling the size of the pot out of position. This means his bets wont be as large as they should be relative to the pot size

[TightEnd]

thanks for the repiles guys. I knew I'd made a few critical errors here. Needed to be told so!

[M3boy]

Myself, Pab and Gee discussed this at length in Vegas airport (well we did have 8 hours to kill and there is only so many times you can walk around the same shop!!)

Basically, we all agreed (well Gee did to a fashion lol) but I could not come up with a play once I checked that flop - because it wouldnt happen.

I would of put the raiser on a big pair and would of bet the flop - he would probably raise me and I would of moved all in. So basically I am going broke on this hand every time.

[action man]

Myself, Pab and Gee discussed this at length in Vegas airport (well we did have 8 hours to kill and there is only so many times you can walk around the same shop!!)

Basically, we all agreed (well Gee did to a fashion lol) but I could not come up with a play once I checked that flop - because it wouldnt happen.

I would of put the raiser on a big pair and would of bet the flop - he would probably raise me and I would of moved all in. So basically I am going broke on this hand every time.

yep this is also my time to ring up the lads and see if their still in the boozer, "get me a magners in mate, ill be down in 10"

[geeforce1]

Myself, Pab and Gee discussed this at length in Vegas airport (well we did have 8 hours to kill and there is only so many times you can walk around the same shop!!)

Basically, we all agreed (well Gee did to a fashion lol) but I could not come up with a play once I checked that flop - because it wouldnt happen.

I would of put the raiser on a big pair and would of bet the flop - he would probably raise me and I would of moved all in. So basically I am going broke on this hand every time.

yep the only thing i didnt quite agree with m3 (pab changed his mind 2 many times) is the play on the turn GIVEN a check on the flop. i would lead out, and not in too much fear of a flush. this is simply because the ace of clubs hit. this only really leaves KQ of clubs that would come from a raise utg from a straight forward player. i would not fear AA now (checked flop on dangerous board) so i think i am betting the best hand here the majority of the time, and i would want to defend it against the board 4 flushing.

[Hoooobaa]

Bet/3-bet flop all in - chances are you are ahead or way ahead (when ahead you will get max value from the hand more than likely)

Lead turn since as you checked this board. I don't see any reason at all to bet the amount you did unless you are really going to offer him the implieds on the river (2k bet / don't call 4k on a club river, this is more advanced and image-based and definitely depends a lot on the momentum of the game thus far)

Check/fold river - unlikely to be bluffed here a A high is more than likely to check behind, if you really are scared play a blocking bet, I don't know the skill level of your opponent but I can't imagine them bluff raising you here with only a small amount behind. This is a definite image-appropriate play however and can't be answered simply.

I also disagree he " got the most value from the hand ". Had he bet the flop he would have got a tonne more value. From this play I would imagine that a bluff raise is not in the players aresenal unless he perceives you to be a bad player.

True

[JP]

Tighty you played this ok.  I would be likely to fold preflop though but sometimes I might call prob unlikely to reraise here as he raised early position.

I wouldn't lead on the flop most of the time for a couple of reasons. The stacks are relatively shallow and a bet on the flop from this guy will probably be between 1000 and 3000. Tighty only has 11,200. The pot size is big the average player will not fold an overpair here. If you lead into him he will fold AK or AQ but you might get 2k out of him from a continuation bet.

Turn I would be very tempted to check it again but I would probably bet about 1500 the way he has played it i would be putting him on 2 big cards and he will call with a club draw. I want to be accumulating chips here and 2nd set is a big hand and i want to tempt him in.

River I would not be scared of that card and would bet about 1500 - 2000 to milk him for a few chips. The milk raise sucks. 99 is a real possibility, TT possibly but less likely. He can have 44 and 22 though or a flush. Would need to be nearly 100% certain he had you beat to fold here. i close my eyes and call I think.

He should have bet the flop and he'd have got all your chips should be thankful you had chips left!

[Jinky04]

tighty not particularly analysed/read other peeps posts.Flat calling a raise with 77 OOP has always got me into trouble, what's the craic if you don't hit your set? Obviously in this scenario you do, and frankly I think you do amazingly just to lose the minimum.

What's the average in the tourney BTW? Surely a relevant question?