What's justice?

[RED-DOG]

Were they afraid you would dance barefoot in the grass at 3am? 

Actually, I do that when I win a tourney.

[happybhoy]

I've managed 2 pages on this thread before I had to give up before I lost the will to live.

PS thanks to who ever provided this wee dude

 

[TheGreenOne]

Well I had to give up and go to bed just before 1 but it appears the debate ran well into the night. 

I was expecting the thread to initiate laughter and good spirit and not the war of words it appears to of done.  As RED pointed out though... it's good to see it has all been kept amicable.

Only 19 voters though!! 

I jest i jest

[brad.strider]

They should be dealt with the same as anyone else, and not pre judged because of their background or their appearance.

Pre Judge

Prejudice

'sorry this is mads post below strider did not sign out'

i completely agree. ive not read the 10 pages of replies yet but couldnt stop myself replying.
this is a subject close to my heart as i really hate bias and stigma. these young people you are talking about dressed in burberry which is not always fake, have hearts too. there is a big danger of tarring a group with the same brush although they WILL have different values and behaviours.
why dont you do as Tank suggests and go the whole hog and cut off their genitals so they cant breed. point well made tank!
its very interesting that punishments are being put forward without any crimes being committed. the real crime is the stereotyping thats gone on in the first post here. i dont know what its meant to achieve except to put down groups of OUR young folk.
there could be folk on here who dress in burberry  and feel pretty bad or angry because you are slagging them off without knowing who they are or what they think. and to say that all of these young folk are uneducated boggles the mind. utter crass in my opinion.
open your mind and your heart will follow. having these views of folk serve to narrow the mind and stunt intellectual development. after all how can you be open minded and learn about life if you are unwilling to get past 'SUN' mentality

rant over. im off to get ready for my week in the country in a log cabin no less.

[bolt pp]

They should be dealt with the same as anyone else, and not pre judged because of their background or their appearance.

Pre Judge

Prejudice

'sorry this is mads post below strider did not sign out'

i completely agree. ive not read the 10 pages of replies yet but couldnt stop myself replying.
this is a subject close to my heart as i really hate bias and stigma. these young people you are talking about dressed in burberry which is not always fake, have hearts too. there is a big danger of tarring a group with the same brush although they WILL have different values and behaviours.
why dont you do as Tank suggests and go the whole hog and cut off their genitals so they cant breed. point well made tank!
its very interesting that punishments are being put forward without any crimes being committed. the real crime is the stereotyping thats gone on in the first post here. i dont know what its meant to achieve except to put down groups of OUR young folk.
there could be folk on here who dress in burberry  and feel pretty bad or angry because you are slagging them off without knowing who they are or what they think. and to say that all of these young folk are uneducated boggles the mind. utter crass in my opinion.
open your mind and your heart will follow. having these views of folk serve to narrow the mind and stunt intellectual development. after all how can you be open minded and learn about life if you are unwilling to get past 'SUN' mentality

rant over. im off to get ready for my week in the country in a log cabin no less.

Very well said

[thetank]

Enjoy yourself mad

[Sark79]

Right,  who is having a laugh and how did you get my email address? 

Dear Sir/Madam,

One of the biggest dangers facing the future of gardening and botany in the United Kingdom is the growing chav culture of which I'm sure you are aware.

During the 1980s disadvantaged females gave birth at alarmingly young ages as they were too poor to indulge in activities beyond the obscene. They were ill equipped to rear their young in a civilized manner, as such our streets today are filled with people who love nothing more than to uproot plants in nice people's gardens whilst they are whooped up on alcoholic apple beverages.

This problem, as it relates to gardeners, is twofold.....

- Existing botany enthusiasts are losing valuable plantage.

- Potential future botanists are put off from taking up the hobby. What's the point in nursing marigolds and chrysanthemums to their beautiful maturity when some yelpie will just decide to intrude upon your property and wear it as a hat on Friday night?

In our society, the usual solution to a problem regarding unlawful acts is to contact the local constabulary. Unfortunately this doesn't seem to do any good.

- It is hard to catch the perpetrators in the act.

- When you do, the punishments they receive for murdering herbs are hardly my idea of justice. Still, it serves to further enrage the chavs into more serious criminal damage upon your garden. In some extreme circumstances, they have even been known to uproot bush.

Our organisation proposes a different solution to the problem. Instil a sense of plant love into today’s working class youth.

For just £150, we can send a chav to a botanical museum in the South of France for 4 days. During this time, our sincere hope is that they will subconsciously become more inclined into loving and respecting all livings things. They may still piss in the street (as poor people are prone to do) but we can be free to plant symmetrical patterns of posies, free of the fear that they will be tampered with.

It is expected that these folk will jump at the chance of a free holiday, so that should not be a problem.

My name is John Partridge, and I am based in Oxenholme. Please contact me if you are interested in setting up a fundraising group in your own area. My e-mail address can be found below.

We are also looking for volunteers to marschall the bus trips to the South of France. Your duties include leading the chavs in song, and keeping the driver alive. This position is not recommended for the over 70s.

Naturally, if you have any ideas about this problem, or questions about our proposed scheme, we are always happy to receive feedback.

We are called the BRP (Botanists Reforming the Poor) and we have lofty ambitions. We need your help.

Thank you for taking the time to read this e-mail

Regards

John Partridge  (BRP founder)

johnpartridge@dcemail.com



Please feel free to forward this e-mail to your friends, or post it on any public forums that you frequent.

[madasahatstand]

sark

i think your stalker is back again. how did you get on at uni by the way?

[Sark79]

sark

i think your stalker is back again. how did you get on at uni by the way?

lol,  I think they must be.

I did ok and I am fairly sure I passed.  To be honest over the next few days I am going to decide whether or not to return for 3rd year.  I can't stand the course I am doing ( Geography ) and it is too late to change now.  The thought of two more years and approx another £8,000 - 9,000 debts for doing something I dislike is not very tempting.

[charmaine]

I have the same email Sark , never even posted in the chav thread  
But as I'm here ........... lol
 

I have one son that is a cross between a Greb and a Punk , and two that if you wanna class them i guess they would be chavs.

They can be a pain in the arse granted , but have no trouble police wise , they don't mug old ladies , abuse people for there race/colour of there skin .

I hope I've taught them that we're all equal .
We come from a Gypsy background and  my kids are very proud of this and are for ever telling people about there family's life in a caravan .

I think people need to see behind the bling and clothes , punk gear and Mohican's , theres good and bad all around , just sometimes we're not seeing which is which .

My Penny's worth  

[yt]

I work in an office, wear a suit etc etc. However, the people I work with are generally middle class uni grads. I am born and breed in Harlow and therefore talk a bit rough innit.    The people in my office have often made jokes towards me about being a chav because of where i live and how i talk. I just laugh it off.

To me a Chav is young, wears dodgy sportswear and plenty of bling.  They generally hang around shopping centres in groups and intimidate people. They don't actually have to be commiting crimes to be a Chav. It's more of a LOOK they go for more than their actions. That just how I see it.

So I have one opinion of what makes a Chav and my work collegues think I qualify as a Chav.

This doen't help this discussion at all! It's just my observations

[Colchester Kev]

I think people need to see behind the bling and clothes , punk gear and Mohican's , theres good and bad all around , just sometimes we're not seeing which is which .

AMEN

Best post in the whole 10 pages.

[North Angel]

Yep I also received the same email.........didn't have a clue about this thread.

Ang x x

Not happy about people spamming my email addy.

[AndrewT]

A nice big long thread for me to read on a Monday morning.

I think Dundonian summed things up the best. There have always been people who are anti-social, who have had different names depending on the times (like 'yob'). Personally I hate the word 'chav' as the word entered common parlance through the middle classes, not through the people the term would actually apply to. History tells us that collective terms for groups of people that are not coined by the group themselves are usually derogotary.

For many middle class snobs, chav = working class. The term gives them an easy way to turn their noses up at another sector of society. The problem comes from the fact that a chav has come to be defined by their clothes and their jewellery and suchlike, and problems always arise when you categorise people by what they look like.

When I was at university, the enemy of us students was the 'townie'. A Townie is, to all intents and purposes, what a chav is now. It was someone who probably lived and worked in the same small place they grew up, left school as soon as they could and got some sort of manual job. Many of them may have worn the same sort of clothes (Ben Sherman shirts) but it wasn't the way they looked, or what job they did, or their background which led us to hate them. It was their ignorance and, more specifically, the fact they revelled in their ignorance - it was a badge of honour to them. We'd gone off to university to learn more about the world, about ourselves, about other people - to broaden our minds. Their minds were closed. We were capable of having discussions with each other in a mature way, with reason and logic. Townies would seek to resolve arguments in their favour using intimidation and violence.

It is this aspect of their personalities which should define a chav, but unfortunately the focus has become Burberry caps, gold chains and tracksuit bottoms. The danger is that many good kids, who just happen to come from a working-class background, will find themselves sucked into playing up to the 'chav' stereotype.

Going off on a tangent a bit now, I'm from a resolutely working-class background. My parents were Irish immigrants and my father still has a manual job. To a casual observer, I would appear to be middle-class (desk job, degree, bottle of Chenin Blanc chilling in the fridge). However, I would never classify myself as middle-class, because of my background, but I'm not really working-class either, because of my lifestyle (virtually all my friends are from university and are from middle-class backgrounds).

The traditional 'working-class' label doesn't really apply to a whole group of people (like me) who have (thanks to the expansion of the universities in the 1960s) been 'educated out of their class'. It seems that those who have been left behind have got the chav label pinned on them.

[thetank]

Very interesting points Andrew.