OK stupid question but.......

[mikkyT]

what are the motives for this move by the US government?
are they trying to force these poker companies to pay a higher tax or rates or something?

These companies dont pay any tax, they are all off shore Hence the US government and its fundraisers (B&M casino lobbys and the like) throwings its dummies out of the pram cos they dont get a cent from all the US $$$ that is going offshore.

Most of these companies are only offshore out of neccessity. If they had been allowed to set up their businesses in the US in the first place, most would have done so. The US did not allow them to locate within America. The US government didn't want their tax in the first place and have now clearly demonstrated that they still don't want it.

AndrewTs explanation is much more plausible... I'm not saying yours isn't plausible, of course it is. But his is better.

[AlrightJack]

It's a prevention law. They are just going to make it hard to deposit. If you don't use a US bank you will be fine anywhere.

Not so. Many of these companies will now not let you log in when you are on US soil. I could not access Betfair Poker from Vegas and I believe Will Hill have now also prevented people logging in from the US. It is almost certain that Party and 888 will also prevent players from the US being able to log in as well and if Stars, Empire, Paradise, Full Tilt and UB do the same, then that is pretty much it for US online players. There will be ways around it, but only a small minority of players will go down this route. The days of ever increasing prize pools online and weekly million dollar tournaments are numbered.

Was that not just the hotel ISP blocking you from playing? To get you downstairs paying them?

No, it was a message from Betfair saying that I was trying to access from a banned territory. Other sites I could still access.

Why are you finding this so hard to believe Flushy? If the sites comply with the US, that is it for all but the most determined of US players.

Why all but the most determined? Google for "anonymous proxy" and you will find a good number of circumvention tools that take all of a couple of mins to download install and set up.

The trick is then to use ProxyCap to transfer all your internet traffic through the proxy and voila, an international IP address in the country of your choosing...

Exactly, only the determined will get around to/work out how to do this. This is not simple 2 clicks and your in sort of stuff, which is all that most people are able to do.

[Royal Flush]

Why are you finding this so hard to believe Flushy?

Finding what hard to believe, i was just asking a question! The other cryptoskins like inter poker, do they still allow americans?

You were finding it hard to believe that a site like Betfair would block US IPs.

No i find it easy to believe!

[The Rivercard]

So if the American market collapses, where are the marketing arms of the Online Rooms gonna spend all their money?.....

200 million Americans  440 million Europeans on paper the math looks good. However the lack of understanding of poker in Europe and with a low penertration of broadband customers in comparison will result in  many sites going after a smaller market there will be initially a very tough time for some networks and sites. We chose tribeca as I am sure Blonde did because it has a very high European player base, but no matter what site or network you are on this is going to hurt unless you find a fix. Marketing will outside of the US will not fix the problem but acelerate the end of poorly ran sites...so Blonde I think will benafit (as I hope we do).

It will in the long term accelerate the growth in the far east and central Europe.

[mikkyT]

It's a prevention law. They are just going to make it hard to deposit. If you don't use a US bank you will be fine anywhere.

Not so. Many of these companies will now not let you log in when you are on US soil. I could not access Betfair Poker from Vegas and I believe Will Hill have now also prevented people logging in from the US. It is almost certain that Party and 888 will also prevent players from the US being able to log in as well and if Stars, Empire, Paradise, Full Tilt and UB do the same, then that is pretty much it for US online players. There will be ways around it, but only a small minority of players will go down this route. The days of ever increasing prize pools online and weekly million dollar tournaments are numbered.

Was that not just the hotel ISP blocking you from playing? To get you downstairs paying them?

No, it was a message from Betfair saying that I was trying to access from a banned territory. Other sites I could still access.

Why are you finding this so hard to believe Flushy? If the sites comply with the US, that is it for all but the most determined of US players.

Why all but the most determined? Google for "anonymous proxy" and you will find a good number of circumvention tools that take all of a couple of mins to download install and set up.

The trick is then to use ProxyCap to transfer all your internet traffic through the proxy and voila, an international IP address in the country of your choosing...

Exactly, only the determined will get around to/work out how to do this. This is not simple 2 clicks and your in sort of stuff, which is all that most people are able to do.

Looks like there is some merit in making a dummies guide on how to do this, then dumping it on the internet for all to see. My site might see much more traffic from the mugs searching google

[AndrewT]

what are the motives for this move by the US government?
are they trying to force these poker companies to pay a higher tax or rates or something?

These companies dont pay any tax, they are all off shore Hence the US government and its fundraisers (B&M casino lobbys and the like) throwings its dummies out of the pram cos they dont get a cent from all the US $$$ that is going offshore.

Most of these companies are only offshore out of neccessity. If they had been allowed to set up their businesses in the US in the first place, most would have done so. The US did not allow them to locate within America. The US government didn't want their tax in the first place and have now clearly demonstrated that they still don't want it.

AndrewTs explanation is much more plausible... I'm not saying yours isn't plausible, of course it is. But his is better.

It's just my tin foil hat talking.

AlrightJack is kind of right though - it's not that the US government didn't want the tax, but that they didn't notice internet poker till it was too late, by which time all the companies were offshore. If they could turn the clock back to 1998 they'd have legalised online gaming.

[fergus8]

does the uk government or any government tax poker sites? i assume the answer is no...
...so what is stopping a world ban.

[AlrightJack]

what are the motives for this move by the US government?
are they trying to force these poker companies to pay a higher tax or rates or something?

These companies dont pay any tax, they are all off shore Hence the US government and its fundraisers (B&M casino lobbys and the like) throwings its dummies out of the pram cos they dont get a cent from all the US $$$ that is going offshore.

Most of these companies are only offshore out of neccessity. If they had been allowed to set up their businesses in the US in the first place, most would have done so. The US did not allow them to locate within America. The US government didn't want their tax in the first place and have now clearly demonstrated that they still don't want it.

AndrewTs explanation is much more plausible... I'm not saying yours isn't plausible, of course it is. But his is better.

In the long run I think online poker will be allowed back in, which is why sites like Party are complying with the authorities. They do not want to be persona non gratis once it is regulated and they are allowed to operate again. They want the Amercian market and would have preferred to have been onshore from the offset, but legally they were not allowed to do so.

It is completely wrong to use a conspiracy theory type of argument to try and make sense of what is happenning. If all Uncle Sam wanted was his slice of the pie, why did he not accept it when it was offered to him on a plate?

[tikay]

funny you should say that tony.........keep your eyes open over the next few weeks mate

It's not difficult! Europe & Asia. Big time.

[AlrightJack]

what are the motives for this move by the US government?
are they trying to force these poker companies to pay a higher tax or rates or something?

These companies dont pay any tax, they are all off shore Hence the US government and its fundraisers (B&M casino lobbys and the like) throwings its dummies out of the pram cos they dont get a cent from all the US $$$ that is going offshore.

Most of these companies are only offshore out of neccessity. If they had been allowed to set up their businesses in the US in the first place, most would have done so. The US did not allow them to locate within America. The US government didn't want their tax in the first place and have now clearly demonstrated that they still don't want it.

AndrewTs explanation is much more plausible... I'm not saying yours isn't plausible, of course it is. But his is better.

It's just my tin foil hat talking.

AlrightJack is kind of right though - it's not that the US government didn't want the tax, but that they didn't notice internet poker till it was too late, by which time all the companies were offshore. If they could turn the clock back to 1998 they'd have legalised online gaming.

They could easily have cut a deal to see such sites come onshore. This would have been a lot less hassle than banning it.   There are two main groups who have contributed to getting the ban through.

1. The moral majority. That vast bible bashing belt that dominates public life in a large number of US states.
2. Bricks and Mortar gaming operations. Yes, companies like Harrah's, who have vastly benefitted from online poker players visiting their resorts have stupidly not seen the benefit that online gaming/poker can have to their offline businesses. They were unjustifably worried that online gaming would adversely affect people's propensity to venture offline to do their gaming. It is in fact the complete opposite as online gaming has vastly increased their core market. Even the most lazy of couch potato gamblers likes the idea of going to Vegas every now and then.

[mikkyT]

See my website if your interested in what I have termed a "dummies guide" but most likely isn't

[I KNOW IT]

funny you should say that tony.........keep your eyes open over the next few weeks mate

It's not difficult! Europe & Asia. Big time.

I think you will find gambling is illegal in the majority of Asia.

I  think you will find a lot of online gambling sites wont be that keen to take on all these new US players, theres a lot of consequenses if they do.
extract from article by Nolan Dalla:

I expect this to have a ripple affect across the entire industry. Most of the larger poker sites, and likely offshore sportsbooks as well, will be forced to block wagers from US residents. Otherwise, all operators/employees are subject to arrest and prosecution if they enter US territory. Those here and elsewhere who have stated this new law “only applies to financial transactions” have a narrow and tragically misguided view of the legislation. It essentially makes any employee or agent of the offshore site a criminal under US law — UNLESS they block transactions from US residents. In short, an executive from an offshore sportsbook could enter the US and not fear arrest, provided that company is not doing business inside the United States.

 

[mikkyT]

If the online company runs a horse racing book in the US, it would be difficult for the US to procecute, as horse racing bets are legal and where exempt from this law, which makes it a hypocritical mockery not to mention a violation of human rights.