Panorama Sun 26th Nov

[ripple11]

covering internet gambling/online poker.

10.15 Sunday night  BBC1.

[Woodsey]

I saw the trailer for this, it looks like it might be another one of those poker is bad for society and all type programmes.

[boldie]

I saw the trailer for this, it looks like it might be another one of those poker is bad for society and all type programmes.

Panorama used to be a half decent program a couple of years ago..these days it's an hour of scare mongering. I stopped watching it..then again i stopped paying my license fee because of shows like this (and Graham Norton, davina McCall etc)

[ericstoner]

heard a report on this on Five live this morning. Looks like it's gonna be the same old arguments tossed out .

For an example, the difference between online poker,and internet gambling on anything else is not easily identified,and treated as the same.

There will be an online poker expert,didn't get his name,so can't comment on his bona fides,lest to say he seemed to be a student,who's given up work/study to live as an online "gambler"

But this is interspersed with, the pregnant single mother, who "wakes up everyday crying cos of her online losses"

Then we follow the exploits of "Dermot" the journalist......who of course "dosn't even bet on the grand national"
As he trys online poker, tutored by the pro.

He follows the usual pattern of, increasing his stack..........then,donking it all off(against the pros advise)by upping his level and playing above HIS BANKROLL.

There seems to be no mention of studying the game, money management,pot odds, the live circuit,sense of shared ideals etc..

Get ready for the flak.................and bet theres no mention of those ridiculous phone in quizzes, the lottery, online keno,
and other variants.

[ripple11]

heard a report on this on Five live this morning. Looks like it's gonna be the same old arguments tossed out .

For an example, the difference between online poker,and internet gambling on anything else is not easily identified,and treated as the same.

There will be an online poker expert,didn't get his name,so can't comment on his bona fides,lest to say he seemed to be a student,who's given up work/study to live as an online "gambler"

But this is interspersed with, the pregnant single mother, who "wakes up everyday crying cos of her online losses"

Then we follow the exploits of "Dermot" the journalist......who of course "dosn't even bet on the grand national"
As he trys online poker, tutored by the pro.

He follows the usual pattern of, increasing his stack..........then,donking it all off(against the pros advise)by upping his level and playing above HIS BANKROLL.

There seems to be no mention of studying the game, money management,pot odds, the live circuit,sense of shared ideals etc..

Get ready for the flak.................and bet theres no mention of those ridiculous phone in quizzes, the lottery, online keno,
and other variants.

 

[owner]

Here's a taster of what is in store for us on Sunday. 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/panorama/6165948.stm

Panorama have sunk to the lowest levels of journalism for a long time, the hatchet job they did on England fans during the World Cup was a disgrace to the BBC.  You can let them know what you think after watching the programme here.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/panorama/discuss_panorama/default.stm

[tantrum]

Ok, we all know we are addicts, we are vulnerable people who can't make decisions in our lives what is good for us and bad. 

I predict they will show some people who has lost their houses and family due to gambling but will ommit all those who make nice juicy profit from poker or treat the game as a hobby and maintain healthy lifestyles.

And they will show some 'experts' who will voice their opinions, but none of those experts will be known by poker players.  The word expert pisses me off more and more, when i hear; 'he is an expert in' i want to ask says who?

Betting on horses though does not make pple addicted, and BBC endorses such activites by showing the races almost every week.

I think programmes on gambling and poker in a mainstream tv need to go to room 101.  I will spend an hour to watch this programme in order to bombard BBC with complains.  oh maybe not, I have other things to do on sunday.

[kinboshi]

It certainly sounds like tabloid journalism.


I think people are 'scared' of what they don't understand.  It's easier for people to categorise poker with other forms of online gambling, rather than spend the time and effort to understand the differences.

I've yet to see a programme about people being addicted to golf or fishing - two sports that I jsut don't understand and have no interest in whatsoever.  I had people who spend hundreds of pounds a month playing golf who criticised me and a friend for playing poker.  He was more critical of my friend who doesn't have a bankroll as such and just deposits another £50 every now and again when he fancies a game or two (he's not a very good player, but he enjoys it and he can afford to spend what he does).  The golfer spent far much more playing golf, but for some reason that's acceptable and 'different'.

I'm asking myself if I should watch this documentary.  It might make me angry.  I guess I will watch it, whilst playing online of course...

[boldie]

It certainly sounds like tabloid journalism.


I think people are 'scared' of what they don't understand.  It's easier for people to categorise poker with other forms of online gambling, rather than spend the time and effort to understand the differences.

I've yet to see a programme about people being addicted to golf or fishing - two sports that I jsut don't understand and have no interest in whatsoever.  I had people who spend hundreds of pounds a month playing golf who criticised me and a friend for playing poker.  He was more critical of my friend who doesn't have a bankroll as such and just deposits another £50 every now and again when he fancies a game or two (he's not a very good player, but he enjoys it and he can afford to spend what he does).  The golfer spent far much more playing golf, but for some reason that's acceptable and 'different'.

I'm asking myself if I should watch this documentary.  It might make me angry.  I guess I will watch it, whilst playing online of course...

I can't watch shows like this anymore. I have turned into a very old man who gets mad and almost shouts at the telly...

[AndrewT]

'In a moment on BBC1, Panorama, which explores how internet gambling is evil and hooks people into its dastardly clutches by enticing them to run up huge debts because its evil. But first, here are tonight's lottery numbers....'

[Jon MW]

It does seem that the program makers behind these sort of shows make them by, before doing any research, pitching the idea - internet gambling is bad, let's make a documentary to show how bad it is.

The journalist involved, Dermot, was on Breakfast news and I think it shows the problem there is in presenting an objective investigation even if you want to. The trail for this news feature had the news readers saying, "Can you make a living playing poker on the internet. We meet a journalist who lost thousands seeing if you could". All very negative.

But, when you actually got to it, Dermot gave some poker pro $2000 to play with and 48 hours later the pro had more than doubled it. Dermot than took over and blew it all. With the 2 of them in the news studio his point seemed to be that you can make a living on the internet playing poker if you know what you are doing, but the whole poker economy is based on people like this pro taking money off of people like him.

This is a lot more objective than a lot of the scaremongering journalists like to make it out, the common view presented is everybody (somehow) loses and there's nothing you can do about it. But it didn't stop the trail being negative, and, the newsreader at the end asking Dermot if the pro was good or just lucky!

[Claw75]

from reading the related bumf on the BBC website, it looks like the pro helped the journo get his money up from $2000 to $5000 playing $50 and $100 games.  Journo then said 'why don't we move up to higher stakes and make money quicker?'.  Pro said no, we don't have bankroll - we will go broke, journo ignored advice.  It will be interesting to see if the advice given about bankroll management is broadcast.

[TightEnd]

do we know who the pro was?

a poll possibly?

[Jon MW]

Matthew Hopkins - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/6177046.stm

[byronkincaid]

As we researched the impact of online gaming in the UK for Panorama, we were surprised at how many people in online poker forums were saying that they had given up their jobs in order to play full time