Tough hand from the Party 20K Gtd.

[The_Diamond]

20K Gtd. $100+9 FO.

12 players left and its $5.5K for first. I'm guaranteed $250 at the moment and my stack is just a little under the average.

I didn't really notice the villain in this hand until he got short stacked around the bubble where he let himself blind away to nothing. At one point he had less than 2BBs. Then he was lucky to double up when forced in with crap about 3 times. I'd been pummelling his BB a lot but I'd never shown a bad hand. I gave him his last double up when I raised in MP with AT and he immediately shoved with aces. I was pot committed to call him.

This is his next BB after that hand. He seems to be on a roll, having shoved a lot and taken a lot of blinds to get the stack he has now.

Could anyone stratch to call his RRAI here? He took about 4 seconds to push when the action was on him. The blinds have only just gone up again and its likely I'll still make the final table if I fold.

#Game No : 5466277784
***** Hand History for Game 5466277784 *****
NL Texas Hold'em Trny:30538799 Level:13 Blinds-Antes(2000/4000 -100) - Monday, November 27, 22:18:48 ET 2006
Table $15K Gtd (886876) Table #1 (Real Money)
Seat 9 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 4: DedeAPS ( $58925 )
Seat 9: HERO ( $49395 )
Seat 10: korrupt911 ( $33022 )
Seat 2: She_DiDIt ( $89674 )
Seat 7: GABI999 ( $44229 )
Seat 1: saffe222 ( $46353 )
Trny:30538799 Level:13
Blinds-Antes(2000/4000 -100)
saffe222 posts ante [100].
She_DiDIt posts ante [100].
DedeAPS posts ante [100].
GABI999 posts ante [100].
NickyOD posts ante [100].
korrupt911 posts ante [100].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to NickyOD [ Ah ]
She_DiDIt folds
DedeAPS folds
GABI999 folds
HERO raises [10000]
korrupt911 folds
saffe222 is all-In [42253]

Your time bank will be activated in 5 secs. If you do not want it to be used, please act now.......

What to do?

[totalise]

If the table is weak, id turbo fold and go on a pushbot spree the next few hands. I tend to find that these people are happy to take advantage of first in vig, but less keen to resteal, so I'd give him credit for a hand, but you are getting pretty good odds given his likely range (pair/Ace/paint) so its probably marginally Cev+ to call, but I think you can fold and get chips hopefully without showdown in the coming hands... I mean, he has let himself get blinded away before, so its hard to accept that he has had a leap of faith and gone from nit to lagtard. To be honest I dont really know what to do here, but I'd fold for reasons already given.

[doubleup]

I would fold - you have just enough chips left.

Incidentally, I would push with this pre-flop because it takes the resteal/stop go out of the blinds' armoury.  You probably don't get called by a worst hand, but there aren't quite enough better hands to make it a bad play.     

[Highstack]

Standard pass.

You have A9o. You made a play, he has come back at you. You have a playable stack and are not committed to the pot. If he is at it, so what, just let him have one.  Unless he has Ax where x is < 9, then you will often find that you are a small favourite or a big dog in these situations.

[doubleup]

I have thought a bit more about this and my advice to go all-in.  I think that it is probably a bit more player dependent.  

I advised going all-in to prevent re-steals and stop and go.  However, if these weapons are not in your opponents repertoire, then a small raise is the best with this kind of hand.  i.e. If you are up against good players all-in is best - they will play perfectly against you, but they probably will if you raise less, so all-in stops you getting outplayed.  If you are up against weak players, a standard raise is best.  You want to see a flop in the hope that they will make a mistake.

[boldie]

Standard pass.

You have A9o. You made a play, he has come back at you. You have a playable stack and are not committed to the pot. If he is at it, so what, just let him have one.  Unless he has Ax where x is < 9, then you will often find that you are a small favourite or a big dog in these situations.

yep..a very easy fold.

[The_Diamond]

Standard pass.

You have A9o. You made a play, he has come back at you. You have a playable stack and are not committed to the pot. If he is at it, so what, just let him have one.  Unless he has Ax where x is < 9, then you will often find that you are a small favourite or a big dog in these situations.

yep..a very easy fold.

Normally I would agree. This time I called. 

If I'm an observer in this hand I'd have looked at the 2 players and said they were both total donkeys and that calling a RRAI with A9 here is very weak. I thought a long time about it and it wasn't one of those "ah sure fuck it" calls. If he pushes straight away I fold here. I mean I think if he has AJ its an autoshove, same goes pairs probably 88 and above. But 4 seconds is a long time in online poker so I got the feeling his decision to push wasn't automatic. Yes I do realise, LAG, distractions and multitabling can account for this too but couple this with the fact that he was on a rush, and I had been raising his blind a lot I got the feeling he was getting out of line so I decided it was a call. He had A-2 and he fantastically outflopped me.   

By the way I don't think the fact that I still have a playable stack should have much influence on your analysis of this situation. I see so many players make these folds because they lack the conviction to go with their gut instinct, purely because they feel more comfortable playing short-stacked-all-in-or-fold-ninja-poker and find it more difficult to play with an average stack or a stack of more than 10BBs.



 

[tantrum]

while i was writing the reply diamong posted his result.

Pre-flop I am not sure I like a raise for 1/4 of your stack against another stack of similar size with the hand that you are not prepared to call all in.  

At this stage, i would really push it against his blinds, so he can't re-steal and he can't call with any two,nor he can't stop and go against you, and the likehood of him waking up with another big hand is possible but not likely.

I think the size of your stack at this level is roughly  M 7.8 which means that realistically you can't afford really S.R.  It all depends on a player, but from what you are saying this guy came back from near death and he is now prepared to take risks with re-steals.

He might see your initial raise as an attempt to steal so he might have any two.

At this stage your stack is the only weapon you have against other short stacks and middle stacks.  I like to conserve my stack at hope for double up, or steal the blinds by pushing.  or go broke.  


Do you think then that if you have pushed he woudl call you with A2?

[boldie]

while i was writing the reply diamong posted his result.

Pre-flop I am not sure I like a raise for 1/4 of your stack against another stack of similar size with the hand that you are not prepared to call all in.  

At this stage, i would really push it against his blinds, so he can't re-steal and he can't call with any two,nor he can't stop and go against you, and the likehood of him waking up with another big hand is possible but not likely.

I think the size of your stack at this level is roughly  M 7.8 which means that realistically you can't afford really S.R.  It all depends on a player, but from what you are saying this guy came back from near death and he is now prepared to take risks with re-steals.

He might see your initial raise as an attempt to steal so he might have any two.

At this stage your stack is the only weapon you have against other short stacks and middle stacks.  I like to conserve my stack at hope for double up, or steal the blinds by pushing.  or go broke.  


Do you think then that if you have pushed he woudl call you with A2?

good point well made there Tantrum. A push pre-flop would be preferable in this situation.

[kinboshi]

If the table is weak, id turbo fold and go on a pushbot spree the next few hands. I tend to find that these people are happy to take advantage of first in vig, but less keen to resteal, so I'd give him credit for a hand, but you are getting pretty good odds given his likely range (pair/Ace/paint) so its probably marginally Cev+ to call, but I think you can fold and get chips hopefully without showdown in the coming hands... I mean, he has let himself get blinded away before, so its hard to accept that he has had a leap of faith and gone from nit to lagtard. To be honest I dont really know what to do here, but I'd fold for reasons already given.

I like your reasoning there. 

I've recently been knocked out of a tourney through calling with the better hand (AQs v A5o, and then JTs v 33) twice against the same player (who annoying went from the short stack to winning it), being outdrawn both times, and then being short-stacked and was knocked out soon after. 

I was thinking to myself at the time that the calls were probably correct if taken in isolation - but I wanted to adopt another tactic, as I knew I'd been playing well up to that point, and didn't want to see all my hard work undone with marginal calls (even if I thought I was a slight favourite). 

Does that make any sense, or am I barking up the wrong tree here?

(great thread by the way)

[The_Diamond]

Considering the stacks at the time a push looks good. I overlooked that option. The only problem is when I make this push obviously both players behind me know I have a hand I don't really want to get called with. Yes, I know they STILL NED A HAND to actually call but if I raise small with the big hands and push in with the weaker one's it's a bit of a leak, which is why I try to be consistent with my preflop raises until I feel I have no play left in me and need a double up. Also since the average stack is about 14/15BBs at this point on Party and most of my oponets are bad shortstack players I think I can wait to get a lot shorter before going into pushbot mode.

[tantrum]

Only if your own M is high enough for a play.

At this stage i don't worry about what is an average stack, i worry how many chips i have left in comparison to blinds, and whether i can afford a fold.

Also since the average stack is about 14/15BBs at this point on Party and most of my oponets are bad shortstack players I think I can wait to get a lot shorter before going into pushbot mode.

How low?

You are already at M-7 so if you take the pot there and then you will be just above 8.8 , but if you double up then it will bring you to M15, which  buys you fair amount of time.  At this tble with antes kicked all players but one are in the same boat as you- which is a fairly good position to be in as you can pick a lot of uncontested pots by pushing all in.  and probably you can bring yourself to the M of above 15.  if you go down to >M5 your double up with level of blinds won't do much difference, unless you will get a good rush of hands.

I push at this level with both strong and weaker hands, until my stack is big enough to go back to the normal game.  Don't get me wrong i don't go on an all in mode every hand, but usually by my FTA- all in strategy with this kind of stack allows me to climb back to the decent level of stack size and then i change the gear.  if you go below M 5 then you are most likely to be called with wider range of hands due to the pot odds, so i think it would be safe to say that the lower you get the more likely you can be sucked out on or got lucky.  So bingo time.