standard of live poker is getting scary....

[Indestructable]

Last time I played down at the Rendevous there was a guy that made an all in move and another player was thinking it over. At this point a young guy at the table said go on you can afford to call him. The guy that had gone all in objected to him intervening, but he carried on and persuaded the guy to call and sure enough he won the hand.
The young guy didn't know what the problem was as Tony G does this all the time on the telly!

[thetank]

oooh, can we have another Tony G thread.

It's been like a whole week 

[TightEnd]

I've got to add to this thread now, with 50p at the ready

Just played the £200 freeze, first event of Luton Xmas festival

Its a one night comp, a quick structure and there are 28 left and I have 20,000 blinds just going 600-1200 so no bother

Of the 90 runners 15 are wearing "Poker Project" shirts


I discover early on that this is a social poker game played in a pub in Ealing, for no money!

Anyway they are basically rookies

UTG project guy moves all in for 21,000 on my BB

He has done the same last hand with K9 suited, and won vs 10s

Hand before he re-raised UTG raiser all in with A7 off. He split the pot with opponents AK

I find AK off, and call for all my chips.

He flips A4 off

board 2 5 9 K 3

thank you and goodnight!

Sorry for the rant, but someone get me alcohol!

[byronkincaid]

you don't wanna be risking your tournament life with Ace high mate. It's a drawing hand.

[Dingdell]

Ooops - you went in ahead - always a mistake. 

[TightEnd]

thanks!


words are currently failing me to respond wittily

[Dingdell]

thanks!


words are currently failing me to respond wittily

I can imagine. Sorry Tighty. 

[thetank]

If he didn't play those hands, he wouldn't have all those chips.

[TightEnd]

true. rant over. back to TWO WORD POKER STORY for a while!

[I, Zimbra]

UTG project guy moves all in for 21,000 on my BB

He has done the same last hand with K9 suited, and won vs 10s

Hand before he re-raised UTG raiser all in with A7 off. He split the pot with opponents AK

I find AK off, and call for all my chips.

He flips A4 off

board 2 5 9 K 3

thank you and goodnight!

Sorry for the rant, but someone get me alcohol!

Spooky, TE. Same thing happened to me in an online freeroll today, clear evidence if it were needed.

My AJ vs QJ vs A4, all-in preflop for the entire ball of wax... board K 2 T 5 3 !

(Perchance could it have been the same player? )

[M3boy]

My view is that although TV has been great for poker, it has been the reason for the change in the game.

I have spoken to many of the "old time" pro's (I wont name them cos they prob dont think they are old time! lol) but the general opinion is shared by them as well.

Poker has NOT become a game of luck as alot of people claim due to the new "novices" playing, it has evolved into a new game - still with the SAME element of Luck and Skill, but with a far far greater variiance.

It may seem like it is impossible to win a tourney sometimes due to people playing bad hands and hitting time and time and time again, but this is just the bigger variance, and as with variance, it SHOULD also work the other way round.
I am still waiting for the later, but keep telling myself it will come. (Not at APAT though when I re raise all in with KK only for the origional raiser to call me for 4/5ths of his stack with 99 and duly hits the 9 on the river)

Having said that, I have noticed the live cash games alot easier to beat than they used to be, but is this also the right side of the variance??? As I dont play enough live cash I cannot say.

I also prefer to be against people with an understanding of poker rather than complete novices, but this is for the challenge at beating them, and the quest for more and more poker knowledge, but I do take the point about it being easier to get the former to lay down a hand if he believes you have what you are representing.

The APAT tourney was a classic example, now I am not saying ALL the players there were novices, but it was clear that many of them had not played much (if any) live poker if any poker at all.
Classic example was on my table, I had not been able to get going at all, not hitting any flops and knowing that I could not bluff at many pots, left me down to 7500 with 20 minutes before the first break.
One player had commented that I was a VERY tight player - to which I replied "yes I am" - knowing I could use this to my advantage before the break to get back to the starting stack of 10,000.
Well I didnt have to wait long before I got the oppotunity.
I was BB and got to see a flop for free (I purposely made that disgruntled noise when looking at my hole cards, loud enough for the guy who commented on me being tight to hear, he was in the pot along with one other and the SB)
Flop came 3 4 6 rainbow (I had 3 5) THIS was the hand I was going to build the pot THEN make my play at it.
The SB bet out 500 and I called VERY quickly. The other two also came along for the ride, but DID notice how quick I called. The Turn bought a rainbow J, and the SB now checked, so did I (showing strength again which was also noticed). The other two were obviously concerned at my check, and both checked as well.
River card came a 9 and the SB checked.
THIS WAS IT!!! With close on 3000 in the pot, I bet out 2000.
The guy who had made the comment about me being tight, thought for an eternity and decided to call!!! The others folded, and what did he show? I expected AJ or two pair, but no,, he called me down with just A9 - second pair, and this was after commenting on me being at tight player. GREAT call as it turned out, but for all the wrong reasons, not because he thought he was ahead, but just to see if he was ahead. lol

[I, Zimbra]

Good story, it seems to back up the old mantra that beginners only play their cards, and completely ignore their opponents' possible holdings...

[I KNOW IT]

Last time I played down at the Rendevous there was a guy that made an all in move and another player was thinking it over. At this point a young guy at the table said go on you can afford to call him. The guy that had gone all in objected to him intervening, but he carried on and persuaded the guy to call and sure enough he won the hand.
The young guy didn't know what the problem was as Tony G does this all the time on the telly!

Tony G does not do that all the time at all. He may try and get a call against himself whilst holding the goods(which is part of speech play) but he wouldnt encourage a player to call against another opponent. These are 2 totally different situations

[boldie]

Last time I played down at the Rendevous there was a guy that made an all in move and another player was thinking it over. At this point a young guy at the table said go on you can afford to call him. The guy that had gone all in objected to him intervening, but he carried on and persuaded the guy to call and sure enough he won the hand.
The young guy didn't know what the problem was as Tony G does this all the time on the telly!

Tony G does not do that all the time at all. He may try and get a call against himself whilst holding the goods(which is part of speech play) but he wouldnt encourage a player to call against another opponent. These are 2 totally different situations

yeah..the "come on you can afford it" if you are not in the hand  is against the rules on most websites even. In live play it's unacceptable.

[TightEnd]

My view is that although TV has been great for poker, it has been the reason for the change in the game.

I have spoken to many of the "old time" pro's (I wont name them cos they prob dont think they are old time! lol) but the general opinion is shared by them as well.

Poker has NOT become a game of luck as alot of people claim due to the new "novices" playing, it has evolved into a new game - still with the SAME element of Luck and Skill, but with a far far greater variiance.

It may seem like it is impossible to win a tourney sometimes due to people playing bad hands and hitting time and time and time again, but this is just the bigger variance, and as with variance, it SHOULD also work the other way round.
I am still waiting for the later, but keep telling myself it will come. (Not at APAT though when I re raise all in with KK only for the origional raiser to call me for 4/5ths of his stack with 99 and duly hits the 9 on the river)

Having said that, I have noticed the live cash games alot easier to beat than they used to be, but is this also the right side of the variance??? As I dont play enough live cash I cannot say.

I also prefer to be against people with an understanding of poker rather than complete novices, but this is for the challenge at beating them, and the quest for more and more poker knowledge, but I do take the point about it being easier to get the former to lay down a hand if he believes you have what you are representing.

The APAT tourney was a classic example, now I am not saying ALL the players there were novices, but it was clear that many of them had not played much (if any) live poker if any poker at all.
Classic example was on my table, I had not been able to get going at all, not hitting any flops and knowing that I could not bluff at many pots, left me down to 7500 with 20 minutes before the first break.
One player had commented that I was a VERY tight player - to which I replied "yes I am" - knowing I could use this to my advantage before the break to get back to the starting stack of 10,000.
Well I didnt have to wait long before I got the oppotunity.
I was BB and got to see a flop for free (I purposely made that disgruntled noise when looking at my hole cards, loud enough for the guy who commented on me being tight to hear, he was in the pot along with one other and the SB)
Flop came 3 4 6 rainbow (I had 3 5) THIS was the hand I was going to build the pot THEN make my play at it.
The SB bet out 500 and I called VERY quickly. The other two also came along for the ride, but DID notice how quick I called. The Turn bought a rainbow J, and the SB now checked, so did I (showing strength again which was also noticed). The other two were obviously concerned at my check, and both checked as well.
River card came a 9 and the SB checked.
THIS WAS IT!!! With close on 3000 in the pot, I bet out 2000.
The guy who had made the comment about me being tight, thought for an eternity and decided to call!!! The others folded, and what did he show? I expected AJ or two pair, but no,, he called me down with just A9 - second pair, and this was after commenting on me being at tight player. GREAT call as it turned out, but for all the wrong reasons, not because he thought he was ahead, but just to see if he was ahead. lol

Interesting post. The APAT events are specifcally designed and marketed to attract new players into the game, so its a different kettle of fish from seeing complete rookies in a festival event!


your point about greater variance though is spot on, many players this year in these big festival fields (more so in 2006 than previously) are either a) locals/newbies spinning it up/taking a shot or b) loose gamblers wanting to get chips early in addition to the 60-70 or so regulars that play the circuit. Its thus changed the make up of the field and the style of play you need to compete. In part that is also because structures are quicker in the side events.

If you don't mix it and get chips to withstand them, you are a sitting duck waiting for the inevitable outdraw and disappointment