Crypto XMAS league EPT sat

[totalise]

I will. ty

So Totalise, one last point?

What is your record of SATS won? as a percentage of played?

Probably the same as James's I bet.

I dont think I have played more then 2 satellites in the last year, If I wanted to play in a tourney id buy directly in, time value you see? my hourly rate in cash games is much bigger then a typical hourly rate in satellites. That should make sense rite?

Why are you getting so defensive? the whole basis of this forum is that people exchange ideas, and I want to know why calling here is wrong, and I dont want to get involved in childish whose penis is bigger competition.

[M3boy]

I never doubted your hourly rate in cash games.

Ariston has written an extensive article on exactly this point, if you want to know so bad, just go and read it.

Nothing to do with "whose penis is bigger"

[totalise]

I never doubted your hourly rate in cash games.

Ariston has written an extensive article on exactly this point, if you want to know so bad, just go and read it.

Nothing to do with "who's penis is bigger"

nothing to do with e-penis? you asked me how many satellites I had won, how is that relevant to this discussion? it isn't.

I am asking you for your opinion, you are the expert, me and flushy both claim to be bad at satellites, why dont you do us a favour and teach us?! Or is it the case that you can PM me and ask me for my opinion, but when I ask you for yours you wont give it? that seems very one sided and selfish

[M3boy]

I made the point about satelite wins as I know you would buy straight in any.

James doesnt play them either.

I never said I was an "expert" - i said i know WHY the call is incorrect.

I have gave my (all be it) brief reason in this thread, only a SB invested and a call of neally 50% of your stack on AT BEST a 6/4 shot.

No need to risk those valuable chips when you dont have to.

Also, I did not PM you and ask for your opinon, I pm'd you and asked you to state reasons why (in your words) I had "failed miserably" to debate a topic.

[totalise]

I made the point about satelite wins as I know you would buy straight in any.

James doesnt play them either.

I never said I was an "expert" - i said i know WHY the call is incorrect.

I have gave my (all be it) brief reason in this thread, only a SB invested and a call of neally 50% of your stack on AT BEST a 6/4 shot.

No need to risk those valuable chips when you dont have to.

Also, I did not PM you and ask for your opinon, I pm'd you and asked you to state reasons why (in your words) I had "failed miserably" to debate a topic.

the PM thing was a while ago, but its not relevant.

I will read Aristons articles, but from what you have said in this thread I still cant see why calling off x amount getting an overlay with a 6/4 chance (given that its pretty obvious you are pushing any two, thats known as playing ranges)  is bad, given the distance before a seat. I guess if people are folding QQ in the SB to a push, then folding is ok, but i cant see that happening too often.

Understand that I dont even necessarily think that calling is the correct play, I just wanted more logical reasoning as to why it was incorrect, because Id defo call there. I can see I wont be getting it from you, so I wont be posting any more in this thread.

I'll wait for aristons links to come up, they I am sure will do a good job of explaining it. Thanks for your help and time.


Regards

[Colchester Kev]

http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=M3Boy&word2=Totalise

sorted !!!

[M3boy]

Totalise, my apologies, I have remembered the PM you are thinking of.

I will PM you a full answer in due course.

[totalise]

Totalise, my apologies, I have remembered the PM you are thinking of.

I will PM you a full answer in due course.

dont bother, you can see that i am a strong advocate of discussion on the forums, I'd prefer that this hand was discussed out in the open so that others in my boat can see why its a bad play.

I also wish you would stop taking things so personal, especially from people like me that have no bone to pick, the comment about satellite success rates is still pissing me off, because its so unecesarry. If you are gonna have a requirement that blondes need to be successful in a given area before being allowed to give an opinion on something, then that opens up a can of worms that doesn't need to be opened up, and it negates the whole point of a forum.

[M3boy]

OK, I will not bother as you have asked me not to.

Aristons article explains it way better than I ever could - links have been posted here.

As for "stop taking things so personal" - may I suggest you read this thread again? Between James and Myself it IS personal. Just read the posts.

I explained to you what was going on between James and myself, after your "personal" comment on my abilitities to Debate. TBH That pissed me off, but such is life.

What I find hard to comprehend is why, after someone who got paid to write an article on this very subject, posted links to that very article, that people who still do not understand why it was a bad call (and admit that they dont play sats) , continue to "ask" why it is a bad call and continue to argue why it is a correct call. All you have to do is read the article. I have never been that good with words.

If I was in your position (not you personally, but that I did not know why it was a bad call), I would of gone away and read the article - not continued to post on here.

Everyone IS entitled to their own opinion, even if that opinion is on a subject that admit is not their strong point. I agree 100%.

[Royal Flush]

If I was in your position (not you personally, but that I did not know why it was a bad call), I would of gone away and read the article - not continued to post on here.

I tried but the articles were not avaliable

[M3boy]

They are available now

[tikay]

This is such a splendid debate (personal stuff excepted), giving all of us valuable insight into the Satellite Equation - satellite with multi-seats being something of a speciality act.

So I'm moving it across to Poker Hand Analysis, where I hope the debate will continie - I am finding it educational, entertaining, & amusing. What more could we wish for?

[tikay]

Would I have called with A-5 in that spot? Probably not. SHOULD I have made that call? Probably.

In a Super Sat in Walsall last year, I made Paul's move, & Red called me in a flash with exactly that hand - A-5. He said "I knew you'd pull the trigger there with any 2, & I was almost guaranteed to be ahead". Damn that man, He was right though.

I don't have Flushy's or Totalises grasp for mathermatical analysis, but in general terms, I rely on the edict "move FIRST with anything, it's better than to call with a marginal". But this fails me so many times, as the aggressor got in first, & I'm stuck there being blinded away, awaiting that vacant spot. My record proves this - "minor cashs" by the score, but rarely the big one. So, I'm gradually converting to the view - if you wanna win these things, you gotta make some hairy calls in the end game.

[Royal Flush]

Ok i read the first article which covers things to the final table and it says don't call, the reasoning for this is "i have won 6 sats so this is right" there is no actual analysis so i am still as lost as i was!

[M3boy]

OK, I will try and explain my thoughts again.

The guy is on 18k with blinds 800 1600 and he is the SB. The BB has 12k

Yes I push with a wide range of hands on the button. So yes the A5 is "probably" ahead, albeit marginal. The BB is also short, and may not be able to pass the oppotunity to trebble up with a wide range of hands.

In the pot "before my push" is 800 +1600 +ante's.

The guy has only 800 invested in this pot, he also has the BB on 12k to act after him.
The extra 8k it costs him to call can be put to far better use to buly others on the table, weather it be to pick up the blinds and ante's or a well timed re steal.
Also, a call and loose here makes him in serious trouble as a short stack leaving him with one move "all in"
With the 18k he has more options, he can also "survive" 2 rounds and still be ok. In this time, it is likely that more people will get knocked out, and maybe even enough to see him onto the final table. Once there, he just has to "survive" to 3rd place.
Winning the tournament is not what you are aiming for.
Indeed, calling here and winning does not guarantee you a seat, far from it.