How to play A-Ko UTG with an M of 5.5ish?

[dime]

I'd generally push, a standard raise and if someone calls leaves you too short stacked, can you call a ragged flop and if you raise have you got enough back to push them off? If there are players who like to raise an unoped pot(particuly if they are late to act) then I call/raise.

[boldie]

I limp-raise here on most tables where there has been some action. If the table has been folding a lot then I'd just standard raise and bet any flop/call any all in.

[Muahahahaha]

I'm a relatively inexperienced MTT player, but there are a couple of points here  that I don't understand.

On a tough table, an M of 5.5 isn't panic stations, or is it ?

Assuming it's not then why would anyone want to push ?  You either want everyone to fold, or to be called by AQ, AJ or worse.  You want small/mid pairs to fold.  But this is a tough table, who's going to call an all in with AQ or AJ ?  So, given that you're not panicing about your tournament life, why risk it when you're only going to be called by better hands, or at best, put yourself in a 50/50 situation ?

If , on the other hand,  you are soiling your underwear, then you need to gamble.  In which case you don't want to scare off the punters with an all in, you want to to make it attractive to call, then try & double up.

In both cases, surely a flat call is the best choice ?  Or maybe a minimum raise.  Something that keeps your options open ?

I've said stupid things in the past, so don't go easy on me if I'm talking rubbish, criticism helps me learn. 

[AlexMartin]

Bollocks to M's, this is panic stations and a premium hand. I aint ever letting go here.

[Dewi_cool]

you have to see the cards to the river PUSH

[Highstack]

Maybe it isn't panic stations, but you have a good hand, albeit an unmade hand at the moment. You are oop and if you do even a small % of your stack here and then lose your BB/SB in the next 2 hands, it really will be panic stations as your stack will soon be an autocall from atc.

[AlexMartin]

Maybe it isn't panic stations, but you have a good hand, albeit an unmade hand at the moment. You are oop and if you do even a small % of your stack here and then lose your BB/SB in the next 2 hands, it really will be panic stations as your stack will soon be an autocall from atc.

Thats why its panic stations now.

[Muahahahaha]

Maybe it isn't panic stations, but you have a good hand, albeit an unmade hand at the moment. You are oop and if you do even a small % of your stack here and then lose your BB/SB in the next 2 hands, it really will be panic stations as your stack will soon be an autocall from atc.

Ok, if we were to fold here ( just assume ) & fold through our blinds, we'd have 10K, still an M of 5.  Then we have position on our side, and we can push, with position, and use our fold equity, with any 2 cards, if it's folded to us.

If we push here, and don't get called, we'll pick up 2000 chips, which again leaves our M at 5.5 after the blinds have passed.

If we call & get pushed off it, we'll have an M of 4.5 after the blinds.

Assuming , on a tough table, there will be one or two players we wouldn't want to tangle with OOP, wouldn't we be better off seeing their reaction before we commit.  If Mr Tightarse calls or raises, would it be wrong to put it down ?  Whereas if Mr Floppybot tries to raise us off the pot , we come straight back over the top.

The all in looks to me as if you don't want any callers.  So you're only getting action if you're in trouble.   If you don't get action, you're increasing your M by 1, which isn't going to win the tourney.

If you think in terms of doubling up, I still think you're better off either seeing a flop, or seeing who wants to play against you, before you commit to the hand.

Sorry this is badly explained, but why play a move that's designed not to get action if you want it, or will only get you a 50 /50 gamble at best ( or increase your stack by a comparatively trivial amount, ) if you don't want action.

My instincts say I'm wrong, and a push is good, but I can't argue a logical reason for it.

[boldie]

You have more than 10x the BB after the BB's have passed so there's no need to panick. M is bollox it doesn't matter what it is..M has always been bollox and scares people into making poor moves. If you are comfortable pushing then you can push. (I wouldn't) I limp raise here as it's a much stronger move and just incase 3 people decide toraise reraise and be all in you know you're WAY behind.

[Highstack]

You are only way behind if someone holds aces. We will crack Kings one in three and if someone has aces we are very unlucky since we hold one of them.

Muha; we should be thinking in terms of winning the tournament and not cashing, but you can't win it here, you can only lose it. Ok maybe you are more likely to lose by placing our entire stack in the middle, but we could go broke post-flop anyhow. What I don't want to do is put 2-3000 out and then pass. You say it looks like you want a call - too bloody right I don't. I rarely do want a call. In fact if I could plod through a tournament where the only time my hand is on its back is the last hand of heads up, then it would make me immensly happy, reality suggests different. What I do know though, is that if I am called (and all in means most hands should find it difficult to call our medium stack) that I am likely about 50% of the time to double through. The blinds and antes are worth collecting and I am never disappointed to do so.

[Royal Flush]

What I don't want to do is put 2-3000 out and then pass.

Then never pass. easy.

AK is a huge hand, never just try to get the blinds with it when you are a mid stack, the best scenario is to be in the blinds/button and be able to get a re-raise in, if we can't manage that then with this stack we want to make a raise that looks like we will pass to a re-raise. Induce the PP AQ/AJ type hands to make a move, or to get people calling with broadway to peel a flop off.

If you just ship it in you tell the table "i have AK goodluck to you all" AQ now gets out of the way, KQ can't call the raise to try to flop a pair etc, you can't fire a 2nd bullet at PP's on the flop anymore.

Do your best to get action with AK whilst keeping it easy to play, always CB when you are this short and do it for an amount that commits but not an obvious moron bluff, say you make it 3k and the button calls, you now have 8k left and the pot is about 7k. Lead for 5k on a J83 flop, it looks like its a thought out bet, just pushing looks like a pre-determined course of action.

[doubleup]

What I don't want to do is put 2-3000 out and then pass.

Then never pass. easy.

AK is a huge hand, never just try to get the blinds with it when you are a mid stack, the best scenario is to be in the blinds/button and be able to get a re-raise in, if we can't manage that then with this stack we want to make a raise that looks like we will pass to a re-raise. Induce the PP AQ/AJ type hands to make a move, or to get people calling with broadway to peel a flop off.

If you just ship it in you tell the table "i have AK goodluck to you all" AQ now gets out of the way, KQ can't call the raise to try to flop a pair etc, you can't fire a 2nd bullet at PP's on the flop anymore.

Do your best to get action with AK whilst keeping it easy to play, always CB when you are this short and do it for an amount that commits but not an obvious moron bluff, say you make it 3k and the button calls, you now have 8k left and the pot is about 7k. Lead for 5k on a J83 flop, it looks like its a thought out bet, just pushing looks like a pre-determined course of action.

While your comments might be valid for some tables, if you read the orginal post, we are dealing with a tough table - they are not going to reraise or even call an UTG raise with AQ.  They are not going to call with a PP hoping to hit a set.   

[Royal Flush]

What I don't want to do is put 2-3000 out and then pass.

Then never pass. easy.

AK is a huge hand, never just try to get the blinds with it when you are a mid stack, the best scenario is to be in the blinds/button and be able to get a re-raise in, if we can't manage that then with this stack we want to make a raise that looks like we will pass to a re-raise. Induce the PP AQ/AJ type hands to make a move, or to get people calling with broadway to peel a flop off.

If you just ship it in you tell the table "i have AK goodluck to you all" AQ now gets out of the way, KQ can't call the raise to try to flop a pair etc, you can't fire a 2nd bullet at PP's on the flop anymore.

Do your best to get action with AK whilst keeping it easy to play, always CB when you are this short and do it for an amount that commits but not an obvious moron bluff, say you make it 3k and the button calls, you now have 8k left and the pot is about 7k. Lead for 5k on a J83 flop, it looks like its a thought out bet, just pushing looks like a pre-determined course of action.

While your comments might be valid for some tables, if you read the orginal post, we are dealing with a tough table - they are not going to reraise or even call an UTG raise with AQ.  They are not going to call with a PP hoping to hit a set.   

So if they don't call with AQ or PP's then they are only going to play with AA-QQ? In that case we are raising small and folding to a re-raise (basically a complete bluff) i don't think so somehow.

Tough opponents does not mean total nits.

[byronkincaid]

Similarly, if you make it 2000 with AK and someone jams behind you, again probably a medium pair, do you now want to race with your AK?

yes

[Dewi_cool]

What I don't want to do is put 2-3000 out and then pass.

Then never pass. easy.

AK is a huge hand, never just try to get the blinds with it when you are a mid stack, the best scenario is to be in the blinds/button and be able to get a re-raise in, if we can't manage that then with this stack we want to make a raise that looks like we will pass to a re-raise. Induce the PP AQ/AJ type hands to make a move, or to get people calling with broadway to peel a flop off.

If you just ship it in you tell the table "i have AK goodluck to you all" AQ now gets out of the way, KQ can't call the raise to try to flop a pair etc, you can't fire a 2nd bullet at PP's on the flop anymore.

Do your best to get action with AK whilst keeping it easy to play, always CB when you are this short and do it for an amount that commits but not an obvious moron bluff, say you make it 3k and the button calls, you now have 8k left and the pot is about 7k. Lead for 5k on a J83 flop, it looks like its a thought out bet, just pushing looks like a pre-determined course of action.

This is probably the most sensible post from Flushy ever!!!!!