MikkyT - We get the truth from the BBC

[dealerFROMhell]

I fail to see how that bears any relevance to the issue of rehabilitation.

[The Camel]

Dealer,

3 years ago I would have agreed with almost everything you write.

Having a child changes all that.

I would bet alot of money you haven't any kids.

You would do anything (and I mean anything) to protect them.

Well, I disagree here.

Sure, maybe if I did have kids then i'd react differently, but that would only be my own personal interests hindering my ability to make a rational judgment on whats best for society as a whole, in dealing with the issue of rehabilatation.

You have to be objective in these things, and I freely admit that it's quite difficult when the thought of your child being harmed is going through your mind.

Fortunately all our opinions are subjective. That's what makes us human.

[ACE2M]

I fail to see how that bears any relevance to the issue of rehabilitation.

me to.

This debate is losing any point it had. Stating hypothetical scenarios proves only that people think in different ways.

Fact is you live in a society that seeks to rehabilitate offenders, i for one wholly agree with this. Wether you make a personal choice to accept a rehabilitated offender is exactly that, personal choice.

[I KNOW IT]

I fail to see how that bears any relevance to the issue of rehabilitation.

My point being, There are people here who are advocating that these animals should be given a 2nd chance in life if they prove to be rehabilitated and are no longer a threat. If Sickky T was one of these so called "examples" and attempted to start posting on here, I feel the same people would scream blue murder.

Also how many of these people would be ok in the Knowledge that one was living next door to them but had been deemed safe by the authorities

[dealerFROMhell]

Fortunately all our opinions are subjective. That's what makes us human.

Objective, as I used it, means taking into consideration the variables of an argument and making an informed decision upon that which you have learned. Something thats extremely difficult to do where children are concerned.

I agree with Ace. This whole debate is kind of fruitless. It's such an emotive issue that nobody is going to be convinced otherwise of their opinion.

[Newmanseye]

Just a question to all:

A convicted child abuser serves his/her time in prison. Is successfully rehabilitated (according to the experts), is then given a new identity etc and the housed in YOUR street. (Hypothetically, you are made aware of this by the police, obviously this would never happen)

Would you be Happy?

No, I vote we ship them to Scotland.

I hope this is just a joke in poor taste!



As for moving if a convicted Paedophile moves in to your street, Yes I aggree, I did this very thing when my old neibourhood was the area for placement of "rehabilitated" Paedos and sex offenders,  We had 18 REPORTED cases of sex offences in 7 months!  As a result both my wife and I decided to fight the system would take too long and to sell up and move on would be best.

My kids can now play with safety in the street, Whilst my actions to move were selfish and helped only my family in the long run, I could not risk the chance of my children becoming a victim of these vile bastards.

Some will argue it was wrong to move and I should have stood by the community and fought for these people to be removed, That fight was already ongoing and the answer that was returned was "if not Here , Where??".

As you can imagine this made a lot of people angry and the red mist did decend amongst some of the parents and the local constituents, Some even invoked the mob mentality and some innocent newcomers to the community were targeted wrongly.

The outcry for vengance and retribution, it can over come our basic common sense and reasoning skills to the extent that we do not fully appreciate the repercusions of OUR actions and the only people that suffer in the end are the original victims of the original crimes as they tend to get lost in the process!

Looks like i got derailled there.

[MANTIS01]

OK

I do not know the individual involved and as such have no comment to make about him.

My post is related to society generally.

People who commit these crimes make up a very small section of the population. These deviants have no place in our society and as such, are removed from it, the moment their actions are uncovered.

What strikes me though is the immense power these individuals have to infect our thoughts even when they are gone. I have not read a post on this thread that condones these crimes. As such, and as a community, we are united.

There are vast legions of honest and genuine people in this world. People who have ethics and principles and who want a decent society in which to live. When cases like this are highlighted it chips away at the foundation of our society. People become suspicious and wary of others. Feelings of anger, violence and frustration bubble to the surface and people become insular and defensive.

It is perfectly natural to feel betrayed by this man if you considered him to be a Friend. My hope is that this initial anger will subside and it does not have any lasting affect on peoples view of others.

Not long ago my local Wacky Warehouse prevented parents watching their children play because of this problem. How can this be?

Every Muslim seems to be a terror suspect.

Just last night as I walked home from a local poker game at 3:00 a.m. the lone woman in front kept breaking out into a trot as she was clearly scared to death of my presence. I felt terrible.

When you are accused of being a mug to trust people who then behave like this it is natural to want to prevent it happening again. You baton down the hatches and close society out. This is where community spirit may eventually go, or where it is already going.

I would like to say this.

This individual had no place in your society and now he is gone. Once initial anger has subsided it is important to move forward, stronger and more determined than ever that the flag of decency should be waved mightily as you go. Do not allow a man such as this to have power over your thoughts and how you live your life. We are not mugs to trust each other, we are just people.

[mex]

Just read this and I am shocked, I think the system has worked, he's been caught and given a big sentence (bare in mind you can atempt to kill someone and get less)


Now can we just forget him, as far as I'm concerned he's not worth any more of my effort

[barhell]

OK

I do not know the individual involved and as such have no comment to make about him.

My post is related to society generally.

People who commit these crimes make up a very small section of the population. These deviants have no place in our society and as such, are removed from it, the moment their actions are uncovered.

What strikes me though is the immense power these individuals have to infect our thoughts even when they are gone. I have not read a post on this thread that condones these crimes. As such, and as a community, we are united.

There are vast legions of honest and genuine people in this world. People who have ethics and principles and who want a decent society in which to live. When cases like this are highlighted it chips away at the foundation of our society. People become suspicious and wary of others. Feelings of anger, violence and frustration bubble to the surface and people become insular and defensive.

It is perfectly natural to feel betrayed by this man if you considered him to be a Friend. My hope is that this initial anger will subside and it does not have any lasting affect on peoples view of others.

Not long ago my local Wacky Warehouse prevented parents watching their children play because of this problem. How can this be?

Every Muslim seems to be a terror suspect.

Just last night as I walked home from a local poker game at 3:00 a.m. the lone woman in front kept breaking out into a trot as she was clearly scared to death of my presence. I felt terrible.

When you are accused of being a mug to trust people who then behave like this it is natural to want to prevent it happening again. You baton down the hatches and close society out. This is where community spirit may eventually go, or where it is already going.

I would like to say this.

This individual had no place in your society and now he is gone. Once initial anger has subsided it is important to move forward, stronger and more determined than ever that the flag of decency should be waved mightily as you go. Do not allow a man such as this to have power over your thoughts and how you live your life. We are not mugs to trust each other, we are just people.

Great post

[bolt pp]

I fail to see how that bears any relevance to the issue of rehabilitation.

me to.

This debate is losing any point it had Stating hypothetical scenarios proves only that people think in different ways.

Fact is you live in a society that seeks to rehabilitate offenders, i for one wholly agree with this. Wether you make a personal choice to accept a rehabilitated offender is exactly that, personal choice.

Exactly!!!

It's unfortunate that this is a subject blonde had to deal with butt mikkyt was a prominent member and i think it was completely to correct for billy to make the initial post.

Unfortunately after 18 pages of applicable condemnation and clarification on a couple of other matters the inevitable discussion of generic sociology has ensued pertaining to possibly the most deplorable and taboo of subject one could encounter, nothings going to get resolved and although i usually love the off topic debates we have on here i haven't posted independent of condemning mikkys actions because ive tried to remember that this is a poker forum.

I think people should be very carfull in posting on this thread hereafter and maybe consider before posting wether or not their need to be heard and have their opinion on this matter is greater than that of the inherent decency of blonde poker.

[smithy69]

I was abused by an "uncle" from the age of six, at the age of 10 i was FORCED to watch as he turned his attentions to my seven year old sister, I beat myself up every day that i was unable to help her, she committed sucide at 14.


thats not hypothetical its FACT:

Sorry, i just get so bloody angry.

I am so sorry for your loss - I truly am!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BigTomatoes]

 reciprocated , so sad to hear .

[Dale]

Just a question to all:

A convicted child abuser serves his/her time in prison. Is successfully rehabilitated (according to the experts), is then given a new identity etc and the housed in YOUR street. (Hypothetically, you are made aware of this by the police, obviously this would never happen)

Would you be Happy?

No, I vote we ship them to Scotland.

How the fuck can you make a joke like that?
words defy me.

[Muahahahaha]

I think the system has worked, he's been caught and given a big sentence (bare in mind you can attempt to kill someone and get less)


Now can we just forget him, as far as I'm concerned he's not worth any more of my effort

But herein lies the problem that many people have pointed out.  My ( albeit unscientific ) observations have always led me to believe that our society has a couple of problems when it comes to sentencing.

Firstly, the courts seem to punish people more for financial crimes against institutions, than they do for physical crimes against people.

Secondly, that any sentence given is rarely served in full.  It seems quite common that a 'life' sentence is about 12 -15 years, and most criminals will only serve about 50 % of their original sentence.

My fears about the disparity in all this are concerned with re offending. 

If I've robbed a bank of 10 million, which isn't found, you can stick me inside for 2 years , or 20 years. I'm not doing another bank , coz I've got no need to.

If I mug someone to get money for drugs, then the chances of my re offending vary depending on the treatment I have received inside.  If I'm still dependant, I'll re offend,if I'm clean, I won't.

BUT.

Sex offenders commit crimes because they are unhinged/ sick / perverts/ unstable , ( insert your own word or phrase ).  The problem is they WILL NOT be cured inside.  If they CANNOT be cured the reason for them committing their original offence is still there.  So how can we, as a society, ever allow them to be released back into everyday life, when there is still a very high chance that their urges  still exist.

This isn't to say that all sex offenders re offend, but, if the media are to be believed at all, then in many of the worst cases of recent years, the offender has started with lesser crimes, before committing a terrible one.

My worry is that why should the majority of decent society suffer because of the ' human rights ' of these people.

If they can be cured, fine.  But if not, keep them incarcerated until they can.  Sod the money, make less bombs if necessary, I'm sure any parent could tell Gordon Brown where it could come from.

[I KNOW IT]