To be backed or not!!

[TightEnd]

No offence intended, if I got the wrong end of the stick I apologise. 

All the best, off to police training college......

[ariston]

I have promised I will not get involved in slanging matches again, I am happy to debate politely which is why I took the time to answer Marks points. If taglines aren't allowed to be witty and need to be serious we are all in trouble. I don't class myself as lucky or good at the minute, I am quite fortunate that other people think I am both. Under my photo is another joke- wish I had the doormans job on the forum

[Mark S.]

Mr Tightend,

Apology accepted. Now be off with you!

[I KNOW IT]

Mark, your statement above can be taken in one of two ways.......

 Mark and anyone else


I'm watching, I'm sad, I have to be up this time of the morning....please don't let it degenerate into slanging matches

ta

Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water. (cue) JAWS music

[dpommo]

I personally wouldn't ever accept any form of  backing for myself, If I'm fortunate enough to get a big cash, I don't want to have to give 50% of  it away. I think it all depends on how high you are aiming. If you are happy to grind away in big events to scrape into the cash and then take a 50% cut of what you have made for all that hard work, then fair play to you. If I didn't have the cash to play a big event, I would go online and try to build up the cash that way, rather than getting backed.

divaflava, you're criticising players in their early twenties who are making money for themselves and having the confidence to go with it, but what is wrong with that? I certainly don't see how there can be too many of them?! Why shouldn't they doubt the "good" players who don't seem to be able clean out the online fish in order to finance themselves?

[ariston]

You know I respect your game dpommo but tournament poker and cash games are entirely different. Some of the biggest players in the world can go 12 months without a win then win 3 in a month (when was the last time negreanu won a tournament? I know he is one of your favourite players). I can not do what you do- you are very good at it but my game does not suit that style of poker. If I didn't have friends who are willing to back me then I wouldn't be able to get back into the game at all. Glad to have you on blonde and we really need to get you posting on strategy peices as I know you have a very good poker brain for someone so young.

[dik9]

No matter what peoples credentails are/were or whatever, would you really see backing a player a sound financial prospect? And what would the criteria be for you to take the plunge?

I mean I have won many online STT and MTT, the biggest "named" the 02:00am $4000 on crypto sites. Why not back me? whats the differance? (i dont want backing by the way)

My thinking is that the players asking for backing are not up to it and are entering the desperation stakes. And if a player was good enough to be back would be giving away a very small slice slice of the cake.

Do you play live? Have you never had 10% with a mate?

[dpommo]

I know what you are saying about the difference, I'd readily admit my tournament play is not up to scratch at the moment. But if I can improve my tournament play, then why can't tournament players improve their cash game? I've just finished reading Barry Greenstein's book, and says numerous times that he feels that the best cash game players are better than the best tournament players, and I agree. If you play enough tournaments and are a decent player, then you are going to do well. I don't understand why more tournament players can't adapt?

[ariston]

Play the circuit for a year then come and tell me you cant understand the difficulty in playing both disciplines. I am not having a pop (you know that of course) but you are a very good cash game player and you have all the moves to be a top tournament player- its just they are completely different disciplines and very hard to do both at the same time. We can discuss this in dublin in more detail as I would like to give you a few pointers about your tournament game if you are serious about playing some of the big ones.

[dpommo]

Of course mate, I'd be happy to take on what you have to say. I'm not having a pop at all tournament players... but I think there a a lot who do well, but aren't particuarly great players, they just play EVERY tournament.

[JoeStrummer]

Some interesting replies to the post. The point regarding expenses is one I overlooked but that’s part and parcel of playing the circuit, surely?

The point that interest me most is the fact that people are prepared to invest in others, and I am not talking about lending a mate(s) money here, and this comes across as a weakness in there own ability (that is my opinion, and is not meant as a psychological breakdown). This I would not have expected from the quality and obvious knowledge from a lot of the afore mentioned posters.

I have played poker for the last 18 months, mainly internet, which is a very short time to be judging others but two things I have seen is that there is a lot of players who have massive egos after winning a tournament say the 15K on crypto, and then automatically assume that there the next WSOP champ, only to have there dreams shattered within a few months. Secondly the more successful people that I have come across are not winning thousands in one hit but are consistently grinding out small wins on a weekly/monthly basis, when I say small that’s in comparison to a big tourney win, is this the reality that you should expect to achieve? I don’t know.

Dik9 asked if I play live and do I share. Well I am starting to expand playing live in my area (Leeds) and the second point that would be unlikely, but having said that I was asked for a chop while on the last table of a 4K event if we got heads up, problem was there was another 8 players left!!

In the immortal words of Stan Laurel, and a point to consider……”You can lead a horse to water but a pencil must be lead”

[Balloo]

I am a twentysomething full time poker player and I am not blinkered in terms of understanding the costs of playing the circuit in the UK or abroad. What I fail to understand is how a good player can get into a situation where they require investment from others. I think there are three key ingredients to poker success (in no order); (i) game selection, (ii) bankroll management and (iii) eagerness to improve your poker game.

With regards to (i) game selection, if a great player goes on a bad run are they willing to move down a notch in the games they are playing? Unfortunatley this side of things seem to be driven by ego and the desire to “show face”. Many of the players on a bad run would hate to have their peers see them playing a 20 quid rebuy tourney or perhaps moving down to 20 quid single table games on the internet to rebuild their bankroll to move to the next level of games. Poker will be around forever, perhaps not in its current state, but even if it takes you 10 years to make it onto the European tour circuit is that a big deal?

With regards to (ii) how many circuit players are playing within their bankroll? I would guess 10% at the most. Why do they continue to put themselves in a position where they are treading water the whole time? It seems to me like the current climate where that one big win can change everything mentality has taken over and I am sure this is used when many players go to backers as a reason to invest. Surely it makes more sense for these players to play satellites online or live which they know are within their bankroll if they don’t make it through one of those, eat humble pie and miss the event!

Finally (iii) encompasses a wide part of playing the game including focus, strategic thinking and bettering your decision making all the time. For the players who are in a slump, how many are reading literature on poker looking for ways to improve? There are lots of great resources on the net in the way of forums, blogs and online magazines which can serve to better your understanding of some new lines of poker thinking and allow you to discuss plays you made and whether they were correct. I think many of the circuit players minds are not open to new thought (all part of the ego) and this has made their game suffer. An excellent example of this is Marcel Luske who has spent a lot of time discussing hands and strategy with his young protégé Noah Bokken. This has kept his game sharp and has seen him have continuing success both in Europe and on a worldwide stage because they come from totally different poker backgrounds.


As I write this I realise that probably the biggest reason players need a backer is ego.........

Just my 2 pence


All The Best

[ifm]

nicely done, thought provoking post.
off to think....................

[Royal Flush]

Spot on Balloo.

Its a pet hate of mine when people say "every player goes broke now and then" well if they do then they aint playing right.

I keep close tabs on my bankroll and my risk management so this cant happen to me. I think all players should do the same.

[Ironside]

I am a twentysomething full time poker player

you in your 20s? thats harder to believe than tikay being younger than 70

but great post all the same