Hand of the Week - 14th May

[boldie]

1; Turn doesn't change anything for you really. so after slowplaying the flo9p you have to call.

2 yes.

3; no idea...

[TightEnd]

Alll very strange...it is as if Mr X has convinced himself that SB has AA.

I bet he passed on the end.

Mr X? I know I know.....

[Harry Demetriou]

Once I have decided to play my hand like a winner and checked behind my opponent on the flop I am going to try and get all the money into the middle despite being fearfull of my opponent having a better hand. Probably I make a small raise on the turn.

I would definitely call on the river as at no stage can I possibly put my opponent on AA with the way the betting has gone. Had I bet on the flop or raised on the turn then I would at least have had a chance to put my opponent on a better hand. Because of this I leave my opponents range of hands to be too diverse to fold at any stage and as such think Mr X has played the hand poorly. (However I'll forgive him if he folds against a super tight opponent or if he has clear evidence to suggest he plays like one from earlier hands in this first level but doubt enough time has passed to be able to formulate this opinion. eg the guy has open folded KK at least twice to a pre flop raise).

Don't know but it seems like Mr X is either Doyle Brunson or Phil Hellmuth...they both play a pretty scared/reserved type game imho but I have a slight preference for PH in this hand in the way that it is played.

[MANTIS01]

This is all very strange.

Anyway. When we "check" the flop we are concealing the strength of our hand. We are doing this to get the chips in the middle. Well guess what? The chips do end up in the middle....so calling is a formality.

At the end we have the 3rd nuts.

By "slow-playing" we have only allowed 3-4 to catch up. If our opponent is Gus Hansen then this is vaguely possible and he is making what looks like a steal....with the nuts. I couldn't read that though and so have to discount it quickly.

The only other hand to worry about is the flopped set of aces. The bizarre way the hand has been played out I call here with more confidence than I had on the flop. Our opponent's actions have been inconsistent. And I always think inconsistency is suspicious....A re-raise pre-flop, a check on the flop, an under-bet on the turn and an over-bet on the river??

In our opponent's eyes we only called his pre-flop re-raise, checked the flop behind him and called his small turn bet. There is nothing to suggest he can determine the strength of our hand. We look ready to give up the pot to some extreme pressure and that's exactly what we get on the river. If our opponent has "read" us for one of the few hands that can call this bet, then this is poker of the highest order and he deserves to be paid.

But hey, he was always going to be paid if he had 3 aces.

[Harry Demetriou]

The problem with Mr X here is that he has never made any kind of bet to find out if his opponent could be holding Aces.

His checks indicate slow playing in order to get all the chips into the middle OR that he feared his opponent had AA and if that was the case then he should have folded on the turn when facing that paltry 250 bet.

However with the stack sizes it looks nigh on impossible not to try and get all the chips into the middle and go broke if his oppponent held a better hand.

[MANTIS01]

I think that although we need to be aware that a set of aces can beat us here we cannot and should not fear that eventuality.
 
The time pressures of tournament play and the relative stack sizes mean that this hand is plenty big enough to commit with. I would find it incredibly difficult to put my opponent on specifically A-A. Even if I bet to acquire information I couldn't rule out A-K, A-Q or 6-6 with enough confidence to allow me to fold here.

Although my first inclination is A-A the deck has still trapped me with this and so we should maybe ready ourselves to go and get a good steak.

[MANTIS01]

Having mentioned 3-4 in an earlier post I think that this makes some sense actually. A player like Gus Hansen is capable or re-raising with ATC, he checked the flop with a view to re-raising rather than betting out and getting re-raised himself. Then when he picked up a glimmer of hope with the middle-pin draw on the turn he bet out small to control the price of the river card. The river makes the nuts and now he purposely bets out-of-context to illicit a call.

All completely un-readable of course but something to think about on your way to the bar.

[snoopy1239]

I think Mr X could have made more movement on an earlier street to find out exactly how strong his opponent was. As it is, he's faced with a difficult decision where he'd be folding a monster hand to one sole holding,but he shouldn't as the potential for A-K, A-Q, 6-6 or even a crazy bluff being too strong.

[doubleup]

The way this hand has played out I actually like the Mr X's play.  Mr X has decided that all the chips are probably going in if his opponent has a big hand, but given the shortish stacks and the pre-flop action he can afford to check the flop and still get the money in.  The advantage of checking the flop is that he shows weakness and perhaps gets some other hands to try and bluff him.

[snoopy1239]

Hi, folks. The reveal to this week's Hand of the Week can be found here...

http://www.blondepoker.com/index.php?q=node/9908

What do you think?...

[Harry Demetriou]

I've read Ace on The River but do not recall this hand so will go off and find it to see if I can get a little more information about the hand.

To be honet I am suprised that this is Barry Greenstein and I will ask him about this hand and his thinking when I next see him and report back.

The problem is not knowing anything about the opponent in the small blind but you do have to give the guy credit for a big hand as there is little else he is likely to repop you with before the flop especially fromt he small blind position.

However in BG's defence if you think you are behind you should fold and its as simple as that because pot odds and stack sizes in situations like this take on less significance.

[Harry Demetriou]

OK p253 to p260 of Ace on The River.

Some relavant information (inconveniently omitted).

Never played with small blind before.

This was the small blinds third hand that he was playing and his first raise after 45 mins of the first level.

As such he was labelled a conservative player and BG puts him on AK, AA or KK

He checks tbehind o induce a bet on the turn as the Ace may have scared the small blind into checking if he held KK and feels that he would have bet if holding AK otherwise he is holding AA. So now after the check on the flop and small bet on the turn its either KK or AA for the small blind.

On the river the all in bet tells him as a conservative player the small blind must have AA so he folds.

Makes the fold a lot easier after reading his thoughts on his opponent but I'm not saying I would have done this or been able to lay the hand down.

The 250 bet on the turn changed nothing about alteing the way BG thought of what his opponent was holding.

[boldie]

Well a very...let's say..disciplined..fold. He was sure the other guy held aces and was proven right. I haven't read his book but unless the title of the chapter was "If you feel you're beaten just fold your monster, (after carefull consideration)" I don't think I'll be buying it anytime soon.

[doubleup]

Well a very...let's say..disciplined..fold. He was sure the other guy held aces and was proven right. I haven't read his book but unless the title of the chapter was "If you feel you're beaten just fold your monster, (after carefull consideration)" I don't think I'll be buying it anytime soon.

Agreed in a shortstack tournament this is utterly gross play and completely result orientated.  OK most players c-bet with AK- mainly for consistency because they also c-bet with 6c7c on an ace high flop, but against an unknown, you really can't base your fold on that alone and that is what he has done.

[snoopy1239]

His checks indicate slow playing in order to get all the chips into the middle OR that he feared his opponent had AA and if that was the case then he should have folded on the turn when facing that paltry 250 bet.

Does he not call this bet because he feels his opponent could still have A-K or K-K, then, when the all-in bet on the River arrives, he realises that this is probably unlikely and that he must be up against Aces?