blonde league feedback

[Colchester Kev]

Just as a reminder, we intended to have 2 10 minute levels of rebuys, in PLO you would struggle to have 2 rebuys in the timescale, in fact no one went out in the first 2 levels, the first casualty of the 2 rebuy rule went out on the 3rd level ... so did I shortly after him LOL .

so as you can see it didnt actually make a great deal of difference.

[KingPoker]

Just as a reminder, we intended to have 2 10 minute levels of rebuys, in PLO you would struggle to have 2 rebuys in the timescale, in fact no one went out in the first 2 levels, the first casualty of the 2 rebuy rule went out on the 3rd level ... so did I shortly after him LOL .

so as you can see it didnt actually make a great deal of difference.

as i said kev mate, i didnt play in them so cant comment on the actual effect it had on the game but dont like the idea of limit rebuys, may aswell call it a triple chance f/o

[KeithyB]

Unlimited rebuys irritate me as it leads to players just feeling compelled to gamble to build up a big stack.  This is a legitimate tactic given the format but I can't see how anyone can deny it is just reducing the skill element and increasing the luck factor involved in winning a tourny.

This reduction in the skill factor is why I don't like unlimited rebuys. It's not particularly about the rebuy costs for me in a $5 tourny although Blonde tourny's should never be set at a level that makes low buyin players vulnerable or uncomfortable just because someone wants to throw a huge bankroll at a little tourny in an attempt to buy it rather than outplay it. This would likely happen if it were say, a $10 unlimited rebuy.

A further luck factor needed in rebuy tournys is that your chances of winning are affected by which table you happen to be drawn at. It doesn't matter whether you want to gamble or whether you wish to play solidly trying to pick off the gamblers, if you're on the wrong table. If noone else at your table is playing ball then you will undoubtably end up the rebuy period at a big disadvantage versus the huge stacks that have been obtained on another table where four or five are using rebuys to build bigger stacks.

Personally I'd leave the rebuys as they are with a maximum of 2 plus an add on option. As Graham mentioned this gives some option for gambling and some protection against early elimination whilst also letting all entrants know exactly the maximum cash they can blow in the tourny.

An important point to bear in mind that this is pot limit omaha not NL Holdem and so most of the action will occur post flop which means you should need less of a safety net rebuy protection against outdraws.

For me a 2 rebuy/1 addon tourny involves more ability and less luck to win than an unlimited rebuy one.

[Royal Flush]

Unlimited rebuys irritate me as it leads to players just feeling compelled to gamble to build up a big stack.  This is a legitimate tactic given the format but I can't see how anyone can deny it is just reducing the skill element and increasing the luck factor involved in winning a tourny.

This reduction in the skill factor is why I don't like unlimited rebuys. It's not particularly about the rebuy costs for me in a $5 tourny although Blonde tourny's should never be set at a level that makes low buyin players vulnerable or uncomfortable just because someone wants to throw a huge bankroll at a little tourny in an attempt to buy it rather than outplay it. This would likely happen if it were say, a $10 unlimited rebuy.

A further luck factor needed in rebuy tournys is that your chances of winning are affected by which table you happen to be drawn at. It doesn't matter whether you want to gamble or whether you wish to play solidly trying to pick off the gamblers, if you're on the wrong table. If noone else at your table is playing ball then you will undoubtably end up the rebuy period at a big disadvantage versus the huge stacks that have been obtained on another table where four or five are using rebuys to build bigger stacks.

Personally I'd leave the rebuys as they are with a maximum of 2 plus an add on option. As Graham mentioned this gives some option for gambling and some protection against early elimination whilst also letting all entrants know exactly the maximum cash they can blow in the tourny.

An important point to bear in mind that this is pot limit omaha not NL Holdem and so most of the action will occur post flop which means you should need less of a safety net rebuy protection against outdraws.

For me a 2 rebuy/1 addon tourny involves more ability and less luck to win than an unlimited rebuy one.

How is it less skill full, the play is a lot deeper in the unlimited rebuys, meaning you have to have much better post flop play later in the tournament. As for getting a lucky draw, well just gamble a couple of times on the tightest table and i guarantee you will loosen it right up!





Dennis i know the point which is being made, my quest was not for every event to be a $200 fo, but i can't see the harm in say the last event in the league being a $50 FO, anybody who can afford a computer to play poker on can afford to play a one off $50 comp.....

[JungleCat03]

Arguments for unlimited rebuys...

a) they will bloat the prize pool enormously
b)they are giving the rest of the table a fantastic change to accumulate a big stack
c) they probably dont care too much about winning the tourney, and once the rebuy period is over they will likely chunk off their chips somewhere to play something else

...pretty much covers it.

Arguments against unlimited rebuys...

Greater probablity flushy is in the latter stages of the comp resulting in an increased likelihood the chat box will be replete with references to gucci handbags, leather trousers and discussion of which member of the village people had the pertest tushy.

I don't really know why the kipper is shit stirring on this issue. The blonde comps are geared towards people having a laugh not towards those who play professionally. 

Having smaller buyins reflects that and probably encourages peeps to treat it more as an opportunity to rib each other than have to knuckle down and play seriously as they would with more wonga on the line. I personally hate playing against mates when there's meaningful amounts of cash in play.

Doubt my opinion carries much weight seeing as I don't play the comps either (doesn't really fit in with my hours of play) but well, you asked for it.

Well you didn't but you got it anyway.

[Geo the Sarge]

Unlimited rebuys irritate me as it leads to players just feeling compelled to gamble to build up a big stack.  This is a legitimate tactic given the format but I can't see how anyone can deny it is just reducing the skill element and increasing the luck factor involved in winning a tourny.

This reduction in the skill factor is why I don't like unlimited rebuys. It's not particularly about the rebuy costs for me in a $5 tourny although Blonde tourny's should never be set at a level that makes low buyin players vulnerable or uncomfortable just because someone wants to throw a huge bankroll at a little tourny in an attempt to buy it rather than outplay it. This would likely happen if it were say, a $10 unlimited rebuy.

A further luck factor needed in rebuy tournys is that your chances of winning are affected by which table you happen to be drawn at. It doesn't matter whether you want to gamble or whether you wish to play solidly trying to pick off the gamblers, if you're on the wrong table. If noone else at your table is playing ball then you will undoubtably end up the rebuy period at a big disadvantage versus the huge stacks that have been obtained on another table where four or five are using rebuys to build bigger stacks.

Personally I'd leave the rebuys as they are with a maximum of 2 plus an add on option. As Graham mentioned this gives some option for gambling and some protection against early elimination whilst also letting all entrants know exactly the maximum cash they can blow in the tourny.

An important point to bear in mind that this is pot limit omaha not NL Holdem and so most of the action will occur post flop which means you should need less of a safety net rebuy protection against outdraws.

For me a 2 rebuy/1 addon tourny involves more ability and less luck to win than an unlimited rebuy one.

How is it less skill full, the play is a lot deeper in the unlimited rebuys, meaning you have to have much better post flop play later in the tournament. As for getting a lucky draw, well just gamble a couple of times on the tightest table and i guarantee you will loosen it right up!





Dennis i know the point which is being made, my quest was not for every event to be a $200 fo, but i can't see the harm in say the last event in the league being a $50 FO, anybody who can afford a computer to play poker on can afford to play a one off $50 comp.....

Sorry James and don't mean to upset however,

This is nonsense. One of the reasons for the structure is to accomodate the majority who responded to Kev's request for ideas.

The outcome of which was for an affordable structure for all which we could all enjoy without the risk of losing too much.

You are now asking for unlimited rebuys and an additional $50 final tourney.

I for one would be unlikley to be able to participate for the full league if this was the case.

Geo.

[tikay]

I've sat & read this & to be honest, it'd be better if I kept quiet, but it saddens me to see Kev & the Flushster having a spat about blonde, because they are big mates.

So I'm gonna stick my oar in - then go offline all weekend....

Picking out points in no particular order,

1) Rebuys can be more skilful. Maybe. That's an opinion, & subjective.

2) Rebuys are unfair. Fact. The better-heeled have a better chance. Fact. In "Live" Poker, Rebuys killed Omaha Tournaments. Jac Arama & Marcel Luske & Co sat on my table in a £250 Omaha Rebuy at The Vic a few years back, each had £2,500 on the table, ostentatiously, & with no shame. (Negraneu did a similar thing in a WSOP Event, too.) They went all-in blind every hand for the first level. Thats "fair"? I think not. Omaha Rebuys in Festivals died because of that. These days, I rarely play Rebuys for that very reason - in the rebuy period, the big dicks use money not skill to build a stack, whereas those that cant afford it are left gawping, & unable to compete. To imagine blonde going that route, alienating our player base, is unthinkable.

3) Rebuys are fine, & fun, but they just don't suit the blonde ethos. I hope Kev, who's decision it is, sticks to low buy-in Freezeoits & Limited Rebuys, two maximum. He has to strike a balance, to suit as many blondes as he can, & if that means Freezeouts, so be it.

4) The blonde League Comps are not about money, or "big dicks", that is missing the point of them. Even for blonde they are not cost-effective, taking into account the time Kev spends administering them. But they are huge fun, thery help bond our Community & I'd not miss any of them, diary permitting.
.
5) Personally, having been lucky in life, I'd love blonde to hold $50 & $100 & $200 comps more often, I'd play them all. But we've had a few, & they have not been well supported. I'm gonna start a new Thread, asking for names for a bigger buy-in blonde Tourney, seperate to the League, & I hope we get a decent field. But if only me & Flushy sign up, Fine, we'll play Heads Up. How can you refuse THAT Flushy?

6) kev's Customer Support on behalf of blonde is legendary, I have to make that point, as it's been suggested otherwise. Every qustion, query, request, complaint, is dealt with efficiently & quickly by Kev. Anyone who thinks otherwise, please say.

7) Flushy's debating style, straight-faced, tougue-in-cheek, does not transfer well to the written word. His Posts "read" rude, but I don't think they are meant that way.

I started another thread, "The blonde Cardroom" or somesuch, reminding folks that it's bpc that pays to run this Forum, our Live Updates, & everything else the blondes enjoy. It's an oddity that Flushy, one of our most high-profile Members, never plays on blonde, but that's his right. Having said that, come on Flushy, it's not about money, giove one or two of them a bash, & join in the spirit of the things. It's like a bB Tourney (which I'm delighted you support & play) - it's not about money. If not, at the very least, sign up to the larger buy-in comp I'm gonna propose, & even if it's only you & me, Heads Up, (candy from a baby?), show willing.

[Graham C]

Good post Tony

Come on Flushy, play a league game, you can have one more table open surely?  You'd enjoy it

[ifm]

A bit naughty that Tikay, if Flushy doesn't wanna play he doesn't have to.
There are some mods on here that don't support the cardroom.

As for the whole rebuy limited thing there are 10 events (i think) in the league, those that don't like unlimited rebuys can avoid those events because only 5 events count.
I actually won't have that choice as i can only play every other week, so i would like unlimited and i can  excercise discipline as to how many reuys i have.

[tikay]

A bit naughty that Tikay, if Flushy doesn't wanna play he doesn't have to.There are some mods on here that don't support the cardroom.

As for the whole rebuy limited thing there are 10 events (i think) in the league, those that don't like unlimited rebuys can avoid those events because only 5 events count.
I actually won't have that choice as i can only play every other week, so i would like unlimited and i can  excercise discipline as to how many reuys i have.

Thats quite correct Ian - & I did say

"It's an oddity that Flushy, one of our most high-profile Members, never plays on blonde, but that's his right."

I have openly stated, on the blonde Cardroom Thread, that I play more on other sites than I do on blonde. I also stated why, & what it would take to get me on blonde full-time. They are working hard on changing the things I & others want - bigger cards for a start - & I'll come across full-time when they do. And not before. So no, I don't demand anyone plays on blonde, especially if I don't much. But that misses the point entirely. This place costs a lot to run, & playing on bpc pays for it, & avoids going what some call, & repeatedly object to, the "commercial route".

So we are tring to make bpc more usder-friendly, & by that means, encourage those that frequent & use our free Forum & Live Updates to play on bpc a little more.

[tikay]

A bit naughty that Tikay, if Flushy doesn't wanna play he doesn't have to.
There are some mods on here that don't support the cardroom.

As for the whole rebuy limited thing there are 10 events (i think) in the league, those that don't like unlimited rebuys can avoid those events because only 5 events count.
I actually won't have that choice as i can only play every other week, so i would like unlimited and i can  excercise discipline as to how many reuys i have.

[/b][/i]

Of course, that's entirely right, exercise self-discipline. But that does not stop others - maybe me included - throwing multi-buy-ins at the Tourney, "doing a Jac", & that, whilst boosting the Prize Pool, disadvantages those that can't afford to compete with me financially. I don't think we want to go that route.

Nobody is forced to play blonde, & we never suggested thus. It'd be handy if a few more did, that's all we are saying.

[KingPoker]

A bit naughty that Tikay, if Flushy doesn't wanna play he doesn't have to.
There are some mods on here that don't support the cardroom.

As for the whole rebuy limited thing there are 10 events (i think) in the league, those that don't like unlimited rebuys can avoid those events because only 5 events count.
I actually won't have that choice as i can only play every other week, so i would like unlimited and i can  excercise discipline as to how many rebuys i have.

Exactly my point aswell ian!
And surely you want somebody going all in every hand??!! I just sit back and wait for premium and then double up. Yes he may suck out once or twice but mathematically you are going to win more of them than you lose so why not have someone who seems almost kind enough to give you their chips!
Just because you have more dough to rebuy doesnt guarantee you are going to get chips!!!!! Poker is a game of skill and tactics and you just have to alter your style to suit the rebuy format, it will make you a better all round player to have that under your belt aswell.

[tikay]

A bit naughty that Tikay, if Flushy doesn't wanna play he doesn't have to.
There are some mods on here that don't support the cardroom.

As for the whole rebuy limited thing there are 10 events (i think) in the league, those that don't like unlimited rebuys can avoid those events because only 5 events count.
I actually won't have that choice as i can only play every other week, so i would like unlimited and i can  excercise discipline as to how many rebuys i have.

Exactly my point aswell ian!
And surely you want somebody going all in every hand??!! I just sit back and wait for premium and then double up. Yes he may suck out once or twice but mathematically you are going to win more of them than you lose so why not have someone who seems almost kind enough to give you their chips!
Just because you have more dough to rebuy doesnt guarantee you are going to get chips!!!!! Poker is a game of skill and tactics and you just have to alter your style to suit the rebuy format, it will make you a better all round player to have that under your belt aswell.

Just because you have more dough to rebuy doesnt guarantee you are going to get chips!!!!!

100% correct. I've seen folks throw 20 rebuys at a Tourney & still not cash. But that's not the point. They have a better chance than those that can't afford so to do.

[Sheriff Fatman]

Just as a reminder, we intended to have 2 10 minute levels of rebuys, in PLO you would struggle to have 2 rebuys in the timescale, in fact no one went out in the first 2 levels, the first casualty of the 2 rebuy rule went out on the 3rd level ... so did I shortly after him LOL .

so as you can see it didnt actually make a great deal of difference.

I think part of the issue with this is that the rebuys are restricted, unlike on Tribeca, to only be available if you bust out.  I think this is a bad thing for the blonde league events.

I spent a few minutes trying to rebuy once my starting stack dipped below the original 1500 and couldn't find a way to do so.  Consequently, the best option available to me in that situation is to gamble on one hand and either double up or bust out and rebuy.  However, restricting the number of rebuys means that you can't do this more than twice, which is why I much prefer the old structure of rebuy league events.

[KingPoker]

A bit naughty that Tikay, if Flushy doesn't wanna play he doesn't have to.
There are some mods on here that don't support the cardroom.

As for the whole rebuy limited thing there are 10 events (i think) in the league, those that don't like unlimited rebuys can avoid those events because only 5 events count.
I actually won't have that choice as i can only play every other week, so i would like unlimited and i can  excercise discipline as to how many rebuys i have.

Exactly my point aswell ian!
And surely you want somebody going all in every hand??!! I just sit back and wait for premium and then double up. Yes he may suck out once or twice but mathematically you are going to win more of them than you lose so why not have someone who seems almost kind enough to give you their chips!
Just because you have more dough to rebuy doesnt guarantee you are going to get chips!!!!! Poker is a game of skill and tactics and you just have to alter your style to suit the rebuy format, it will make you a better all round player to have that under your belt aswell.

Just because you have more dough to rebuy doesnt guarantee you are going to get chips!!!!!

100% correct. I've seen folks throw 20 rebuys at a Tourney & still not cash. But that's not the point. They have a better chance than those that can't afford so to do.

Yes but poker isnt a level playing field anyway, if im being serious here for the only time i ever will be about this subject, i know yourself and flushy are 10x the player i am so you have an edge anyway even if its a freezeout! Its all about the challenge and i for one and quite happy to try and rise to it.