Am I doing something wrong?

[Flea]

Hi,

Recently I've been going through a really bad run, I'm still enjoying it but it has started to get me down slightly with my lack of form. I prefer playing mtt's online (only because I can very rarely get to live games) and have a reasonably good cashing rate. I know I don't win many but I used to cash on a regular basis and was happy with that, just recently I barely seem to cash at all - Once in the last 3 months in bigger MTT's and maybe 3 times in smaller ones (by small I mean less than 100 players).

The thing is I've tried not to let it affect my game for instance tonight I've played 5 MTT's and started reasonably well in all 5 but managed to go out within reach of the money in all of them (including bubbling twice), given this run should I just try to limp into the money to boost the confidence a bit? or am I right to keep playing to try to win (or at least go as deep as possible).

For instance the last MTT I've just gone out of (81st when paying down to 80th) I had just under 9 times the BB and was in the SB with A7, it folded round to me and I figured any raise worth making would pretty much pot-commit me so went all-in and got called by AJ which held up - I have no bones about the hand at all I'm just concerned that maybe I should adjust my play when close to the money (at least until I've regained some confidence).

Someone typed into the chat box "why??" which made me think but the answer is I wasn't playing to just limp into the prizes.

What do others think/suggest??

Any help would be much appreciated.

Cheers
Andy

[M3boy]

I would suggest your Game needs improving in the middle of the tourney - you seem to get to the bubble stage with not many chips.

You need to accumulate chips along the way as well as survive.

I think it is VERY easy to slip towards "survive" and not "accumulate" when you have not cashed for a while but this is a slippery slope to becoming a loosing player imo

[Claw75]

Someone typed into the chat box "why??" which made me think but the answer is I wasn't playing to just limp into the prizes.

I know what you mean, and I've been guilty of similar plays in the past too.  No, you're not playing to limp into the prizes, but you're definitely not playing to bubble either.  Pass here and you've still got 8.5 bbs.  Wait for the bubble to burst, then try to double up would be my advice.

[Tractor]

I would echo M3s advice here, it seems from what you said you are trying to Cash, i would forget cashing and try to get your first win.
This way you can forget the bubble, get your foot on the peddle earlier, get a big stack if you can and go to war.
You might find your busting out a lot earlier in most of the comps but if your playing 5 mtts a night it wont be long before you will be going deep in one.

GL

[Longy]

Im no Mtt specialist and there is reason for that as I am not a fan of varience. Mtt's have massive varience due to the field sizes and the payout structure being top heavy, so even the good players tend to go through very long dry spells but make all of it back with a couple of big cashes when they run deep.Im sure flushy posted on here over a year ago about a downswing he was going through and it was quite sick and he is big winner in Mtt's online.

Being a winning player in Mtt's is about finishing in the top few spots, so getting hold of a stack and wielding to useful affect in the right spots, the bubble and the tight players for example seems to be the way to go.Also play position, I can emphasise this enough in no limit, position is king.

The shove on the bubble is probably quite marginal, I would fold here only because its the bubble and the mathematics mean it is probably more +ev to hang on. I shove this hand all day if it is not the bubble.

[kinboshi]

Im no Mtt specialist and there is reason for that as I am not a fan of varience. Mtt's have massive varience due to the field sizes and the payout structure being top heavy, so even the good players tend to go through very long dry spells but make all of it back with a couple of big cashes when they run deep.Im sure flushy posted on here over a year ago about a downswing he was going through and it was quite sick and he is big winner in Mtt's online.

Being a winning player in Mtt's is about finishing in the top few spots, so getting hold of a stack and wielding to useful affect in the right spots, the bubble and the tight players for example seems to be the way to go.Also play position, I can emphasise this enough in no limit, position is king.

The shove on the bubble is probably quite marginal, I would fold here only because its the bubble and the mathematics mean it is probably more +ev to hang on. I shove this hand all day if it is not the bubble.

Agree with all of that.

I bubbled in an MTT yesterday.  was going along swimmingly, in the top ten.  Then in the space of 3 hands, I was gone.  Each time putting my money in ahead, and being outdrawn - the final time when I'd become fairly short and was in need of a double up.  Maybe shoving against the big stack at the table who could afford to call and lose was a bad idea - but i wanted the double up (rather than just his BB), and 7 times out of 10, that's exactly what would have happened.  In a cash game it's reload and soldier on.  In a tourney it's game over.

[Grier78]

My advice would be to keep an eye on the size of the average stack and don't let yourself fall too behind it, sit reasonably tight before the antes kick in but after that steal, steal, steal.

If you take a large number of small risks in the midgame then will usually avoid the need to take any big risks until the final table bubble.

Avoid ever having to stick your whole stack in if possible, don't re raise anyone if it is going to get you pot committed.

Obviously this all assumes that you have an edge over the other players which you probably will have if you are playing in $25 tourney's or less. If not drop down a couple of levels and crush the games till you get your confidence back.

Good luck.

[Royal Flush]

I don't mean to be funny but reading your PHA posts i can't see how its possible that given your current playing style you will ever be a long term MTT winner.

I suggest a change of game or a major overhaul of your playing style.

P.S. Shoving A7 there is so massively correct. Having 9BB at that stage of a tournament is the problem.

[doubleup]

P.S. Shoving A7 there is so massively correct.

You might well be right, but as you don't know the payout structure, average chips etc, you are guessing.

[Royal Flush]

P.S. Shoving A7 there is so massively correct.

You might well be right, but as you don't know the payout structure, average chips etc, you are guessing.

I have yet to see a large field tournament where pushing 9BB from SB to BB on the bubble with a good hand is not correct, so unless its a truly bizarre comp the other details are not needed.

[hugob055]

P.S. Shoving A7 there is so massively correct.

You might well be right, but as you don't know the payout structure, average chips etc, you are guessing.

does it matter what the average stack is or the payout with 9bb in that position your pushing with a huge range

[Graham C]

You have a similar problem to me.  I'm ok in the early stages of tourneys, I'm not to bad in the late stages of tourneys, but I'm really struggling at the moment during the middle stages if I have a healthy stack going into the middle stage for some reason.  If I take the approach to call to see a lot of flops with ok hands, I end up just getting low stacked, then have to push in desperation and if I play more conserveratively and wait for decent hands then raise, I seem to end up short stacked or blind out.

I need to sort my game out too, not quite sure what to do yet, will have to read through some books I have I think.

[GlasgowBandit]

I am going to stick my tuppence worth in here for what its worth.

I have the opposite problem, my issues are at the beginning/early parts of tournament I find it hard to accumulate chips.  Doesnt seem to matter if its a rebuy or freezeout.  In the last couple of nights I have been tuning into some tourneys and looking for players who seem to do quite well and I am looking at what they are doing to see how they accumulate early and I don't see that they are doing anything differently from me, but they seem to be getting a little bit of luck when it matters. 

However at the business end I seem fairly comfortable and when I have managed to get a stack I am going fairly deep. 

In regards to this specific hand on this thread I am not sure that I want to be shoving with A 7, simply because I know I am probably one being called by a bigger A or a PP, I'd much rather get my stack in with 67s, when i find myself as a short stack.

A mate of mine though seems to be totally different, he seems to easily accumulate chips early but once the bubble bursts seems to become super tight and passive and I think this seems to stop him making bigger cashes than what he does, we have toyed with the idea of splitting the buy in for a few online tourneys and him playing the early stages upto the 2nd break when he has ammassed a stack with me taking over when its time to go after the money, not sure what purpose this serves other than us accumulating some money.  I would hope that I would be able to pick up some ideas from him on how he accumulates his chips and i would hope from his perspective he'd be able to how I consolidate and gather chips and attack weak players and put pressure on them when the prizes are given out.

[KarmaDope]

A mate of mine though seems to be totally different, he seems to easily accumulate chips early but once the bubble bursts seems to become super tight and passive and I think this seems to stop him making bigger cashes than what he does, we have toyed with the idea of splitting the buy in for a few online tourneys and him playing the early stages upto the 2nd break when he has ammassed a stack with me taking over when its time to go after the money, not sure what purpose this serves other than us accumulating some money.

I would be very careful, a lot of sites have banned this.

[Indestructable]

Flea,
You just had a mention on Sky, doesn't sound like tonight is any better.