Vagueness and the Aftermath - A sporadic diary

[TheChipPrince]

Whats the army's reasoning behind the 22-year max employment?

[Ironside]

What is a WO11 and how is it different from a WO1?

Its just another level Tom,

Roughly you will have 8-10 WO11 in the regiment but only one WO1 - he in effect is "top jock" (in scottish regts)

It's a weird thing that a soldier will join as a private, move to Jnco (Lcpl-Cpl) and then to Snco (Sgt - Wo1)

Once a soldier reaches the rank of Sgt his "soldiering" days are generally done. Unless he is specialist platoon - Anti tank - Mortars - Recce, then he basically moves into admin.

Csgt becomes the company quartermaster sergeant (CQMS which is a title and not a rank.) And he is responsible for the stores and admin of the troops, he would then move to WO11 as a Company Sergeant Major (CSM- again a title.) Basically in charge of more admin and discipline within the company. So after 12-15 years, all that experince is wasted.

Take my example:

I joined in 1978, promoted to Lcpl in 1980 then Cpl in 1985. I chose to go the Physical Training instructor route but stayed with the Battallion, during this time, when not on operations I generall played football for 6 months of the year and basketball for 3. Promoted to Sgt in 1995 having moved from PT instructor to the Milan (anti-tank) platoon. I left in 2001 as I had to as I had completed 22 years service (time starts from 18 year old.)  No choice, go - 22 years done, that's it, 40 years old, still as fit as most and with a wealth of experince.

If I had gained the rank of WO1 I may have the commission option in which case I could do till 55 years old and possibly longer.

If I had joined when I was 27 years old (max age at time I joined) then I would be ther till 59 years old!! For some trades you can actually jpoin as late as 33.

I could have asked to be considered for what they cal the "long service list" (LSL) however they are mostly clerical/store type jobs which I didn't fancy and there where restrictions on pension whilst still on LSL. I could also have joined the TA but didn't fancy it.

Geo

You really do have a knack of explaining complicated situations.

It's a bit of a bugger that they are done with you so early, but I envy you the experience all the same.

Do you still maintain your fitness, and if so, how?

Funny you ask,

I used to continue to play football and basketball and quite a bit of golf but that got binned when I started poker and the forum. I realised recently that I was starting to develop a bit of a paunch again so for the last 3 and a half months I have been cycling to and from work.

I really enjoy it tbh. It's not a great distance, probs about 3 miles from home to work. I deliberately have a heavy bike (Diamondback) and stay in the stiffest gear I can. Takes about 15 mins in and 20 mins back as it's uphill home, there's one part up a realy good gradient on a street called Midmar Avenue which is quite tough. I am gradually improving on my wee challenge to get up on an ever increasing stiffer gear.

Started at 1-2 and have moved through 1-2,3,4,5 (hope that makes sense) in these few months.

Am thinking of setting myself some target/challenge for middle of next year, some sort of charity distance cycle challenge sort of thing.

Geo

3 miles and you cycle?

you should run it

1) better for you
2) nearly as quick as you dont need to obey the rules of the road

[Ironside]

Whats the army's reasoning behind the 22-year max employment?

keep the seinor ranks fresh

nothing worse than seeing a SNCO that can only just pass a basic fitness test

[TheChipPrince]

Whats the army's reasoning behind the 22-year max employment?

keep the seinor ranks fresh

nothing worse than seeing a SNCO that can only just pass a basic fitness test

Why not have a fitness based exit scheme then?

[RED-DOG]

What is a WO11 and how is it different from a WO1?

Its just another level Tom,

Roughly you will have 8-10 WO11 in the regiment but only one WO1 - he in effect is "top jock" (in scottish regts)

It's a weird thing that a soldier will join as a private, move to Jnco (Lcpl-Cpl) and then to Snco (Sgt - Wo1)

Once a soldier reaches the rank of Sgt his "soldiering" days are generally done. Unless he is specialist platoon - Anti tank - Mortars - Recce, then he basically moves into admin.

Csgt becomes the company quartermaster sergeant (CQMS which is a title and not a rank.) And he is responsible for the stores and admin of the troops, he would then move to WO11 as a Company Sergeant Major (CSM- again a title.) Basically in charge of more admin and discipline within the company. So after 12-15 years, all that experince is wasted.

Take my example:

I joined in 1978, promoted to Lcpl in 1980 then Cpl in 1985. I chose to go the Physical Training instructor route but stayed with the Battallion, during this time, when not on operations I generall played football for 6 months of the year and basketball for 3. Promoted to Sgt in 1995 having moved from PT instructor to the Milan (anti-tank) platoon. I left in 2001 as I had to as I had completed 22 years service (time starts from 18 year old.)  No choice, go - 22 years done, that's it, 40 years old, still as fit as most and with a wealth of experince.

If I had gained the rank of WO1 I may have the commission option in which case I could do till 55 years old and possibly longer.

If I had joined when I was 27 years old (max age at time I joined) then I would be ther till 59 years old!! For some trades you can actually jpoin as late as 33.

I could have asked to be considered for what they cal the "long service list" (LSL) however they are mostly clerical/store type jobs which I didn't fancy and there where restrictions on pension whilst still on LSL. I could also have joined the TA but didn't fancy it.

Geo

You really do have a knack of explaining complicated situations.

It's a bit of a bugger that they are done with you so early, but I envy you the experience all the same.

Do you still maintain your fitness, and if so, how?

Funny you ask,

I used to continue to play football and basketball and quite a bit of golf but that got binned when I started poker and the forum. I realised recently that I was starting to develop a bit of a paunch again so for the last 3 and a half months I have been cycling to and from work.

I really enjoy it tbh. It's not a great distance, probs about 3 miles from home to work. I deliberately have a heavy bike (Diamondback) and stay in the stiffest gear I can. Takes about 15 mins in and 20 mins back as it's uphill home, there's one part up a realy good gradient on a street called Midmar Avenue which is quite tough. I am gradually improving on my wee challenge to get up on an ever increasing stiffer gear.

Started at 1-2 and have moved through 1-2,3,4,5 (hope that makes sense) in these few months.

Am thinking of setting myself some target/challenge for middle of next year, some sort of charity distance cycle challenge sort of thing.

Geo

Even funnier, I took my bike out of mothballs yesteday. (I originaly rescued it from a skip a few years ago) I used to cycle for miles with no problem, but now it's hard work just going to the local shop (About 2 miles)

I'll soon get back in the saddle though.

[Geo the Sarge]

What is a WO11 and how is it different from a WO1?

Its just another level Tom,

Roughly you will have 8-10 WO11 in the regiment but only one WO1 - he in effect is "top jock" (in scottish regts)

It's a weird thing that a soldier will join as a private, move to Jnco (Lcpl-Cpl) and then to Snco (Sgt - Wo1)

Once a soldier reaches the rank of Sgt his "soldiering" days are generally done. Unless he is specialist platoon - Anti tank - Mortars - Recce, then he basically moves into admin.

Csgt becomes the company quartermaster sergeant (CQMS which is a title and not a rank.) And he is responsible for the stores and admin of the troops, he would then move to WO11 as a Company Sergeant Major (CSM- again a title.) Basically in charge of more admin and discipline within the company. So after 12-15 years, all that experince is wasted.

Take my example:

I joined in 1978, promoted to Lcpl in 1980 then Cpl in 1985. I chose to go the Physical Training instructor route but stayed with the Battallion, during this time, when not on operations I generall played football for 6 months of the year and basketball for 3. Promoted to Sgt in 1995 having moved from PT instructor to the Milan (anti-tank) platoon. I left in 2001 as I had to as I had completed 22 years service (time starts from 18 year old.)  No choice, go - 22 years done, that's it, 40 years old, still as fit as most and with a wealth of experince.

If I had gained the rank of WO1 I may have the commission option in which case I could do till 55 years old and possibly longer.

If I had joined when I was 27 years old (max age at time I joined) then I would be ther till 59 years old!! For some trades you can actually jpoin as late as 33.

I could have asked to be considered for what they cal the "long service list" (LSL) however they are mostly clerical/store type jobs which I didn't fancy and there where restrictions on pension whilst still on LSL. I could also have joined the TA but didn't fancy it.

Geo

You really do have a knack of explaining complicated situations.

It's a bit of a bugger that they are done with you so early, but I envy you the experience all the same.

Do you still maintain your fitness, and if so, how?

Funny you ask,

I used to continue to play football and basketball and quite a bit of golf but that got binned when I started poker and the forum. I realised recently that I was starting to develop a bit of a paunch again so for the last 3 and a half months I have been cycling to and from work.

I really enjoy it tbh. It's not a great distance, probs about 3 miles from home to work. I deliberately have a heavy bike (Diamondback) and stay in the stiffest gear I can. Takes about 15 mins in and 20 mins back as it's uphill home, there's one part up a realy good gradient on a street called Midmar Avenue which is quite tough. I am gradually improving on my wee challenge to get up on an ever increasing stiffer gear.

Started at 1-2 and have moved through 1-2,3,4,5 (hope that makes sense) in these few months.

Am thinking of setting myself some target/challenge for middle of next year, some sort of charity distance cycle challenge sort of thing.

Geo

3 miles and you cycle?

you should run it


1) better for you
2) nearly as quick as you dont need to obey the rules of the road

Unfortunately my knees are shot to pieces and cycling is a lot easier on them, reason I gave up the footie altogether.

When I was a PTI, I really hated running, too boring. If I was at a loose end I would lock myself in the squash court for an hour and batter myself silly around there chasing that blue ball. I rarely ever played a game of squash against another as I feared it would become addictive. A great game.

As to the rules of the road, believe it or not, I still treat myself as a vehicle and do obey the rules, my only sin is I don't as yet, wear a helmet (I know it's not law but the missus and grandaughter peg me for it all the time.) I just can't get comfy wearing one.

Geo

[Ironside]

Whats the army's reasoning behind the 22-year max employment?

keep the seinor ranks fresh

nothing worse than seeing a SNCO that can only just pass a basic fitness test

Why not have a fitness based exit scheme then?

cause by the time they reach sgt alot of sncos have more was of missing fitness tests even complusory ones than the vatican has excuses for there clergy

[Geo the Sarge]

Whats the army's reasoning behind the 22-year max employment?

keep the seinor ranks fresh

nothing worse than seeing a SNCO that can only just pass a basic fitness test

Why not have a fitness based exit scheme then?

Good question Chip,

The RAF and Navy can serve to 55, however they do have a system based on fitness and current value to the system, much as you mention here. I believe that this is done at different points during their service.

Have no idea why the Army has a different set up.

Just before I left the Army I was working in the recruiting office in Edinburgh and there were moves to introduce a similar scheme but that went by the way. If it had been offered to me, I would have snapped their arm off.

Geo

[RED-DOG]

As to the rules of the road, believe it or not, I still treat myself as a vehicle and do obey the rules, my only sin is I don't as yet, wear a helmet (I know it's not law but the missus and grandaughter peg me for it all the time.) I just can't get comfy wearing one.

I don't and won't wear a helmet. You can't protect yourself against every risk. Oh I know that you woud be safer waring a helmet, but you would also be safer wearing it while walking. (Or sitting on the sofa with Mrs Red for that matter)

[Geo the Sarge]

Whats the army's reasoning behind the 22-year max employment?

keep the seinor ranks fresh

nothing worse than seeing a SNCO that can only just pass a basic fitness test

I would say this is true for a lot of Corp personnel but not so much for Infantry Regts.

Geo

[Geo the Sarge]

Apologies on the thread hijack Tom,

next time we meet we really need to put an hour or two aside.

Geo

[Ironside]

Whats the army's reasoning behind the 22-year max employment?

keep the seinor ranks fresh

nothing worse than seeing a SNCO that can only just pass a basic fitness test

I would say this is true for a lot of Corp personnel but not so much for Infantry Regts.

Geo

some of the corps its not just the SNCO that cant pass fitness tests
i was fed up having to go into office earlier to let off squaddies so they could go on remedial PT

[Ironside]

Apologies on the thread hijack Tom,

next time we meet we really need to put an hour or two aside.

Geo

yeah ffs where is the next pic

[RED-DOG]

Apologies on the thread hijack Tom,

next time we meet we really need to put an hour or two aside.

Geo

No problem at all. I love it when people post on here, whatever the subject.

[Geo the Sarge]

BTW,

remember I was saying that for some of us that "squaddies" was deemed derogatory? found this link.

http://www.arrse.co.uk/wiki/Squaddie

Geo