Vagueness and the Aftermath - A sporadic diary

[RED-DOG]

Wildlife presenter Steve Backshall agrees that while highly unusual it is not totally unheard of and has "no reason to doubt" the photo.
He compared the woodpecker to other animals like leaf cutter ants and rhino beetles, which can carry 850 times their body weight.

What an earthenware receptacle of excrement.  

do you absolutely think this is impossible? like more than say... a 1000/1 shot if you left a woodpecker and a weasel in a room?

obviously I wasn't particularly taken in by the BBC describing someone as an 'expert' without any further explanation of their credentials....but you strike me as the kind of bloke whose intuition about whether this is possible or not is likely correct...so.....

Well I'm going to stick my neck out and say it's absolutely, totally and utterly impossible.

I would imagine a bird that has evolved to carry prey would probably be able to lift about 1/3 to 1/2 of it's own weight if it were gripped in it's talons where it wouldn't affect wing movement and aerodynamics too much.


Hopefully, Rod will be along soon to enlighten us.

I'm tempted to believe it though - thinking the fright of being jumped on by a weasel would see the woodpecker get airborn for a short while, before the weight took it back down (and the photographer says he saw it land).

Yeah, I see what you mean. It was so afraid that it defied the laws of physics.

If you call falling off a branch with a weasel on you back flying then I could do it.

I don't believe it does break the laws of physics though.

A woodpecker is approx 21cm in length with a wingspan of 30cm.

Going by the picture the weasel is at the low end of the size range for a female - (11 to 20cm) - so I'd expect low end of the weight range too - (29g to 110g according to wiki).

I''ve seen a jackdaw fly off from the ground with a 90g fatball hanging from its beak. At 2/3 the size of a jackdaw I'm don't see a problem with a woodpecker taking off with 30g on its back and getting a few feet. especially as the weasel is along the back, better weight distribution and streamlining than a ball hanging from the beak.

Also if an osprey can catch and fly off with a fish of near it's own body weight, I'm pretty confident a woodpecker can carry a good bit less than it's weight. (Again from wiki) The osprey is 0.9–2.1 kg (2.0–4.6 lb) in weight and 50–66 cm (20–26 in) in length with a 127–180 cm (50–71 in) wingspan. It typically takes fish weighing 150–300 g (5.3–10.6 oz) and about 25–35 cm (9.8–13.8 in) in length, but the weight can range from 50 grams (1.8 oz) to 2 kg (4.4 lb). Virtually any type of fish in that size range are taken.

Going by the other pics the photographer got it doesn't seem to have been a long flight.

https://www.birdguides.com/webzine/article.asp?a=4886

Would be  a tough challenge for mythbusters to prove though

Pish

But you believe the osprey pics where they catch a fish and take off out of the water carrying it?

Click to see full-size image.

Fish is roughly the same relative length as the weasel - and a fish is pure muscle....

Ospreys have spent millions of years evolving to do that.

In another few million years, woodpeckers might evolve into a taxi service for weasels if it turns out they can make a living at it.

[Rod Paradise]

Wildlife presenter Steve Backshall agrees that while highly unusual it is not totally unheard of and has "no reason to doubt" the photo.
He compared the woodpecker to other animals like leaf cutter ants and rhino beetles, which can carry 850 times their body weight.

What an earthenware receptacle of excrement.  

do you absolutely think this is impossible? like more than say... a 1000/1 shot if you left a woodpecker and a weasel in a room?

obviously I wasn't particularly taken in by the BBC describing someone as an 'expert' without any further explanation of their credentials....but you strike me as the kind of bloke whose intuition about whether this is possible or not is likely correct...so.....

Well I'm going to stick my neck out and say it's absolutely, totally and utterly impossible.

I would imagine a bird that has evolved to carry prey would probably be able to lift about 1/3 to 1/2 of it's own weight if it were gripped in it's talons where it wouldn't affect wing movement and aerodynamics too much.


Hopefully, Rod will be along soon to enlighten us.

I'm tempted to believe it though - thinking the fright of being jumped on by a weasel would see the woodpecker get airborn for a short while, before the weight took it back down (and the photographer says he saw it land).

Yeah, I see what you mean. It was so afraid that it defied the laws of physics.

If you call falling off a branch with a weasel on you back flying then I could do it.

I don't believe it does break the laws of physics though.

A woodpecker is approx 21cm in length with a wingspan of 30cm.

Going by the picture the weasel is at the low end of the size range for a female - (11 to 20cm) - so I'd expect low end of the weight range too - (29g to 110g according to wiki).

I''ve seen a jackdaw fly off from the ground with a 90g fatball hanging from its beak. At 2/3 the size of a jackdaw I'm don't see a problem with a woodpecker taking off with 30g on its back and getting a few feet. especially as the weasel is along the back, better weight distribution and streamlining than a ball hanging from the beak.

Also if an osprey can catch and fly off with a fish of near it's own body weight, I'm pretty confident a woodpecker can carry a good bit less than it's weight. (Again from wiki) The osprey is 0.9–2.1 kg (2.0–4.6 lb) in weight and 50–66 cm (20–26 in) in length with a 127–180 cm (50–71 in) wingspan. It typically takes fish weighing 150–300 g (5.3–10.6 oz) and about 25–35 cm (9.8–13.8 in) in length, but the weight can range from 50 grams (1.8 oz) to 2 kg (4.4 lb). Virtually any type of fish in that size range are taken.

Going by the other pics the photographer got it doesn't seem to have been a long flight.

https://www.birdguides.com/webzine/article.asp?a=4886

Would be  a tough challenge for mythbusters to prove though

Pish

But you believe the osprey pics where they catch a fish and take off out of the water carrying it?

Click to see full-size image.

Fish is roughly the same relative length as the weasel - and a fish is pure muscle....

Ospreys have spent millions of years evolving to do that.

In another few million years, woodpeckers might evolve into a taxi service for weasels if it turns out they can make a living at it.

We'll need to disagree then. I just don't find it inconceivable that a bird that can fly fast and high unencumbered couldn't fly a few feet with something 1/6th its weight on its back...

[RED-DOG]

Have I missed this weight ratio evidence somewhere?

[Rod Paradise]

Have I missed this weight ratio evidence somewhere?

Sorry - looked it up but didn't post it:

Green Woodpecker: 180-220 g  (6½-8 oz)

Weasel : 29g to 110g

So small weasel - not a huge weight for a woodpecker.

[kinboshi]

How much wood could a woodpecker peck if a woodpecker was carrying a weasel on its neck?

Anyway, it reminds me of this:

Monty Python and the Holy Grail
Scene 1

[wind]
[clop clop clop]
King Arthur: Whoa there!
[clop clop clop]
Soldier #1: Halt! Who goes there?
Arthur: It is I, Arthur, son of Uther Pendragon, from the castle of Camelot. King of the Britons, defeater of the Saxons, Sovereign of all England!
Soldier #1: Pull the other one!
Arthur: I am, ...and this is my trusty servant Patsy. We have ridden the length and breadth of the land in search of knights who will join me in my court at Camelot. I must speak with your lord and master.
Soldier #1: What? Ridden on a horse?
Arthur: Yes!
Soldier #1: You're using coconuts!
Arthur: What?
Soldier #1: You've got two empty halves of coconut and you're bangin' 'em together.
Arthur: So? We have ridden since the snows of winter covered this land, through the kingdom of Mercia, through--
Soldier #1: Where'd you get the coconuts?
Arthur: We found them.
Soldier #1: Found them? In Mercia? The coconut's tropical!
Arthur: What do you mean?
Soldier #1: Well, this is a temperate zone.
Arthur: The swallow may fly south with the sun or the house martin or the plover may seek warmer climes in winter, yet these are not strangers to our land?
Soldier #1: Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?
Arthur: Not at all. They could be carried.
Soldier #1: What? A swallow carrying a coconut?
Arthur: It could grip it by the husk!
Soldier #1: It's not a question of where he grips it! It's a simple question of weight ratios! A five ounce bird could not carry a one pound coconut.
Arthur: Well, it doesn't matter. Will you go and tell your master that Arthur from the Court of Camelot is here?
Soldier #1: Listen. In order to maintain air-speed velocity, a swallow needs to beat its wings forty-three times every second, right?
Arthur: Please!
Soldier #1: Am I right?
Arthur: I'm not interested!
Soldier #2: It could be carried by an African swallow!
Soldier #1: Oh, yeah, an African swallow maybe, but not a European swallow. That's my point.
Soldier #2: Oh, yeah, I agree with that.
Arthur: Will you ask your master if he wants to join my court at Camelot?!
Soldier #1: But then of course a-- African swallows are non-migratory.
Soldier #2: Oh, yeah...
Soldier #1: So, they couldn't bring a coconut back anyway...
[clop clop clop]
Soldier #2: Wait a minute! Supposing two swallows carried it together?
Soldier #1: No, they'd have to have it on a line.
Soldier #2: Well, simple! They'd just use a strand of creeper!
Soldier #1: What, held under the dorsal guiding feathers?
Soldier #2: Well, why not?

[RED-DOG]

So you're on Rod's side?

[Karabiner]

Have I missed this weight ratio evidence somewhere?

Sorry - looked it up but didn't post it:

Green Woodpecker: 180-220 g  (6½-8 oz)

Weasel : 29g to 110g

So small weasel - not a huge weight for a woodpecker.

I saw one report last night that said the weasel weighed about the same as a mars bar if that means anything.

[RED-DOG]

Have I missed this weight ratio evidence somewhere?

Sorry - looked it up but didn't post it:

Green Woodpecker: 180-220 g  (6½-8 oz)

Weasel : 29g to 110g

So small weasel - not a huge weight for a woodpecker.

I saw one report last night that said the weasel weighed about the same as a mars bar if that means anything.

Well a mars bar deffo weighs more than a penguin.

[Karabiner]

Have I missed this weight ratio evidence somewhere?

Sorry - looked it up but didn't post it:

Green Woodpecker: 180-220 g  (6½-8 oz)

Weasel : 29g to 110g

So small weasel - not a huge weight for a woodpecker.

I saw one report last night that said the weasel weighed about the same as a mars bar if that means anything.

Well a mars bar deffo weighs more than a penguin.

Or a lion.

[kinboshi]

Have I missed this weight ratio evidence somewhere?

Sorry - looked it up but didn't post it:

Green Woodpecker: 180-220 g  (6½-8 oz)

Weasel : 29g to 110g

So small weasel - not a huge weight for a woodpecker.

I saw one report last night that said the weasel weighed about the same as a mars bar if that means anything.

Well a mars bar deffo weighs more than a penguin.

Or a lion.

But no way the woodpecker could fly with a double decker on his back...

[Graham C]

Not sure if this has been posted already, obviously the photo has....

http://www.digitaltrends.com/photography/woodpecker-weasel-photo/

[RED-DOG]

Click to see full-size image.

[kinboshi]

Click to see full-size image.

Celtic's holiday snaps?

[RED-DOG]

Yes. It was one of those all inclusive jobbies.

[Karabiner]

Back to serious business who's your money on for best of show at Crufts?

I like that Russian/Scottish Terrier a lot.