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Author Topic: Vagueness and the Aftermath - A sporadic diary  (Read 1379525 times)
The_nun
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« Reply #29100 on: September 13, 2017, 09:35:06 PM »

You both look lovely.  Xx
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« Reply #29101 on: September 13, 2017, 09:54:04 PM »

Mrs Red & I had a low-tech weekend.



 Click to see full-size image.





What a fab pic Tom. Is that a rental or is it the families caravan?


It belongs to the family Kev.

Glad to see that like my old mate CliffC you're still grinding after all of these years.
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« Reply #29102 on: September 13, 2017, 11:29:41 PM »

Looks good.

Some truly ignorant questions coming up, so I hope not to cause offence by asking.

How do you choose where to go for something like this? Is it land owned by people you know? Do you contact farmers in the area and make arrangements to rent the use of a field for a period of time?

Whilst I appreciate it's a completely different community to yours, I'm seeing more and more measures by councils near me (or perhaps even local residents) to prevent vehicular access to public land: grass verges that were never there before or hefty concrete blocks making the park look ridiculous. I expect communities discuss suitable sites and share information on social media. Are the options reducing? What does that mean for people who've only ever moved about from place to place?

I've no doubt it's a vote winner for the councillor who proposed it and that they're delighted with the results.

Hi Tal.

I appreciate the questions and I will try to answer them as best I can, but first, can you clarify the bolded bit for me please?

Only in the sense that I thought you had a permanent (or longstanding) location, rather than moving from place to place a few weeks at a time (presumably in part because they're getting moved on).

No offence intended if I'm barking up the wrong tree.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2017, 11:32:39 PM by Tal » Logged

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« Reply #29103 on: September 13, 2017, 11:44:15 PM »

Looks good.

Some truly ignorant questions coming up, so I hope not to cause offence by asking.

How do you choose where to go for something like this? Is it land owned by people you know? Do you contact farmers in the area and make arrangements to rent the use of a field for a period of time?

Whilst I appreciate it's a completely different community to yours, I'm seeing more and more measures by councils near me (or perhaps even local residents) to prevent vehicular access to public land: grass verges that were never there before or hefty concrete blocks making the park look ridiculous. I expect communities discuss suitable sites and share information on social media. Are the options reducing? What does that mean for people who've only ever moved about from place to place?

I've no doubt it's a vote winner for the councillor who proposed it and that they're delighted with the results.

Hi Tal.

I appreciate the questions and I will try to answer them as best I can, but first, can you clarify the bolded bit for me please?

Only in the sense that I thought you had a permanent (or longstanding) location, rather than moving from place to place a few weeks at a time (presumably in part because they're getting moved on).

No offence intended if I'm barking up the wrong tree.


Cheers Simon. I'm currently playing a sit and go which occupies 65% of my available concentration and watching Aircraft Investigation which uses up another 30%, which only leaves 5% for reading and eating a cheese and onion sandwich. (good job eating is 98% instinctive for me).

Will reply tomoz.
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« Reply #29104 on: September 17, 2017, 09:40:34 AM »

Looks good.

Some truly ignorant questions coming up, so I hope not to cause offence by asking.

How do you choose where to go for something like this? Is it land owned by people you know? Do you contact farmers in the area and make arrangements to rent the use of a field for a period of time?

Whilst I appreciate it's a completely different community to yours, I'm seeing more and more measures by councils near me (or perhaps even local residents) to prevent vehicular access to public land: grass verges that were never there before or hefty concrete blocks making the park look ridiculous. I expect communities discuss suitable sites and share information on social media. Are the options reducing? What does that mean for people who've only ever moved about from place to place?

I've no doubt it's a vote winner for the councillor who proposed it and that they're delighted with the results.


I've though about how to answer this question several times over the last couple of days and it always seems to end up as a tl/dr exercise, so I'm going to attempt a cliffs version. I'll do a bit of C&P to make life easy.

The Romani people, also referred to depending on the sub-group as Roma, Sinti or Sindhi, or Kale are an Indo-Aryan ethnic group, who live primarily in Europe. They originated in northwest regions of the Indian subcontinent and left sometime between the 6th and 11th century to work in Middle Eastern courts of their own volition, or as slaves. A small number of nomadic groups were cut off from their return to the subcontinent by conflicts and moved west,  eventually settling in Europe, Turkey and North Africa via Iran.

Of course, because we now live in different countries  we have developed different lifestyles and customs over the years, but all Romani people originally  come from India.

We arrived in Europe around 600 years ago, the ones that ended up in the UK were though to have come from Egypt, and were referred to as Egyptians, which eventually became 'Gypsies'.

Incidentally, although we populated most of Europe, we never got a foot-hold in Ireland, because Ireland already had a well established nomadic group.


Irish Travellers (Irish: an lucht siúil) also called pavees or pejoratively referred to as tinkers, pikeys, and gypsies, are a traditionally itinerant ethnic group who maintain a set of traditions.[2][3] Although predominantly English-speaking, some also use Shelta and other similar cants



To say that the Gypsies were persecuted would be an understatement.


In 1530 Henry VIII expelled the 'outlandish people calling themselves Egyptians ... who used great, subtil and crafty means to deceive the people ... that they by palmestry could tell men's and women's fortunes'. Later legislation provided that if any 'Egyptians shall remain in this realm or Wales one month ... it is felony', and it was also felony to disguise oneself as an Egyptian or to be seen in company with them. All the felonies were without benefit of clergy and therefore attracted the death penalty


Since then there has been countless bits of anti-Gypsy legislation, often disguised as something benign, or even touted as something beneficial.

Take for example the turnpikes act of 1822. Part of this law stated that Gypsies could be fined for camping beside the turnpike (roadside) and imprisoned or transported if the fine could not be paid. People arrested for this 'crime' were known as 'pikeys'.

When I was a boy we travelled in a small family group consisting of two or three caravans. We resorted to wide roadside verges and common land that had been traditional stopping places for generations. Typically we would stay for about a month in each place and visit that place once, or occasionally twice on a year. My dad made sure we left the site spotless  before we left. "We want to come back next year"

The locals who lived near theses stopping places knew who we were, and that we would be gone soon, do so by and large, we were tolerated.

IN 1968 the caravan sites act was introduced. It was a well intentioned act aimed at getting local authorities to provide more official sites for Gypsies, as an incentive they would be allowed to close all the unofficial traditional sites down.

What actually happened was that the traditional sites were closed, but the new sites were never built, leaving us with nowhere to go.

Coincidentally, right around this time there was an influx of Irish Travellers and a proliferation of New-age travellers (ordinary people who have decided to live a Gypsy lifestyle).

BTW I'm not apportioning blame to any of these groups, it is supposedly a free country and I support anyone's right to live the way they choose, I'm just trying to state facts.

With nowhere to legal to camp, large illegal sites, often 20 or 30 families strong, sprang up around the country creating conflict and tension fof travelling and settled communities alike.

Since then, nothing much has changed. Some Gypsies and Travellers, myself included, unwilling to give up their lifestyle completely, have tried to purchase their own land to camp on, but unfortunately 98% of these planning applications are refused.

I had prior permission to park the horse drawn caravan on the field in Derbyshire. It is part of the Chatsworth Estate and Andrew Cavendish, the 11th Duke was a great supporter of Gypsies and a family friend. The 12th Duke, Andrew's son Peregrine is not so 'hands on' with Gypsies, but is non the less very accommodating and mindful of his father's wishes.

No doubt would have managed to find somewhere to camp illegally for a couple of days, (God knows I've done it countless times before) but it wouldn't have been nearly so carefree and pleasant.






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Tal
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« Reply #29105 on: September 17, 2017, 10:20:53 AM »

That's a very thoughtful, interesting and helpful answer. Thank you very much for it.
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« Reply #29106 on: September 17, 2017, 10:27:19 AM »

Excellent Tom
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« Reply #29107 on: September 17, 2017, 10:41:48 AM »


Part of this law stated that Gypsies could be fined for camping beside the turnpike (roadside) and imprisoned or transported if the fine could not be paid. People arrested for this 'crime' were known as 'pikeys'



Ahh, I often wondered where the expression "pikeys" arose from, thanks Tom.
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« Reply #29108 on: September 17, 2017, 11:32:38 AM »

Very interesting Tom.
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« Reply #29109 on: September 17, 2017, 11:37:46 AM »

my new friend

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rescued (well,hopefully) as the current owner found her too much of a handful, which is probably down to inconsistent training and bad habits but at 9 months old should be able to get rid of those

sure i will be in here for advice soon enough!
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« Reply #29110 on: September 17, 2017, 04:50:36 PM »

my new friend

 Click to see full-size image.


rescued (well,hopefully) as the current owner found her too much of a handful, which is probably down to inconsistent training and bad habits but at 9 months old should be able to get rid of those

sure i will be in here for advice soon enough!

Nine months eh? I bet you learn as much as she does. Good luck, and may the force be with you.
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« Reply #29111 on: September 17, 2017, 10:59:01 PM »

I love learning about this stuff.

Wax on. Wax off.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-41284065
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« Reply #29112 on: September 25, 2017, 07:54:15 PM »


From 2.20

Will the scrub hare enjoy his dinner or be dinner?

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