best route for rangers celtic in europe

[fergus8]

after seeing rangers villareal, celtic milan, celtic barca, in the last 3 seasons its pretty obv that the last 16 in champs league is as good as it gets for scotlands big 2. so is it better to qualify for champs league, get paid etc, come third, and have a decent chance of getting somewhere in the uefa cup, or get pumped by the big boys in the main cup and the europen season is over.

for me i love the champs league. but the last 16 is just beyond the teams until they get an abramovic each. any thoughs

[Graham C]

I don't think you need a Sugar Daddy to be able to compete in the CL.  Arsenal certainly don't have one and made the final a couple of years ago and regularly do fairly well (and underachieve imo).  As far as I'm aware Liverpool and Man United weren't owned by billionaires when they won it last either.

IMO, Celtic and Rangers aren't used to playing decent strength competition and it really doesn't do them any favours.

[boldie]

nothing to discuss, surely? I'm in the same boat supporting PSV (though we have been known to go past the last 16....well once in the past few years anyways but I'll take it)..going through is always preferred, 2nd to that is the UEFA cup....finishing last in the group is a disgrace for a half decent side.

[Rod Paradise]

I don't think you need a Sugar Daddy to be able to compete in the CL.  Arsenal certainly don't have one and made the final a couple of years ago and regularly do fairly well (and underachieve imo).  As far as I'm aware Liverpool and Man United weren't owned by billionaires when they won it last either.

IMO, Celtic and Rangers aren't used to playing decent strength competition and it really doesn't do them any favours.

I think the TV money available to the English clubs since the Sky/EPL linkup makes a lot of difference - and a Scots club would need a Sugar Daddy to make up that gap & to challenge for the signings of the next level of player. Even the CL money goes by potential home TV audience, meaning significantly less for a Scottish or Dutch club than the big 5 nations.

There's not much can be done about the strength of competition in the SPL (although I doubt it's as bad as it gets portrayed dahn sarf), which is why getting into CL/UEFA group stages is essential to continue to develop.

[Graham C]

Why do the Scottish leagues have such few teams in them?

Not related of course, but I do wonder why they have 10-12 teams in the league but 4 divisions of them, surely the games in the 3rd division aren't much different to the games in the second (and the bottom of the Prem to the 1st div?)

[Rod Paradise]

Why do the Scottish leagues have such few teams in them?

Not related of course, but I do wonder why they have 10-12 teams in the league but 4 divisions of them, surely the games in the 3rd division aren't much different to the games in the second (and the bottom of the Prem to the 1st div?)

A lot has come from greed. The smaller clubs in the SPL want 3/4 games against Celtic and Rangers to get the bigger crowds/TV money. Div 1 want to keep their bigger games etc etc.

TBH there's too many teams in proportion to population - but try telling a Cowdenbeath or Berwick RAngers fan his team should fold.... As for the quality this is the first year that the top semi-pro (Junior) clubs have taken part in the early rounds of the Scottush Cup & they've shown what a lot of us thought - there's a higher quality of football in those leagues than in Div3 & quite a bit of Div2.

[TightEnd]

are all four top scottish divisions fully pro?

east stirling? berwick? for example

[Rod Paradise]

are all four top scottish divisions fully pro?

east stirling? berwick? for example

Part time, but classed as fully pro. If a player wants to drop down to the Junior leagues they need to apply to be made Semi-pro in the SFA's eyes. Not even all Div 1 clubs have fulltime players. One Senior club (Queen's Park are still amateur, and they own Hampden 

There's better money for players in the Juniors in a lot of cases, and a lot of Junior clubs are far richer than the lower league Senior clubs..

[Hairydude]

Also the quality between the bottom of the SPL and top of 1st division isnt great like you say, but the gulf between say the top 4 teams in 1st division and the old firm is massive! and it would make the league less competitive in the sense that it "guarantees"(if there is such a thing) the old firm easy points a basically-games that you arent even worth playing!! it actually the reason I love the split format- I was sceptical at 1st but it makes the run in that wee bit more difficult and more exciting

[TightEnd]

Is the Scottish FA as stupid as the English FA?

Lots of protection of vested interests? resistance to change?

who holds the power in Scottish football? the big two or the FA?

[boldie]

Is the Scottish FA as stupid as the English FA?

Lots of protection of vested interests? resistance to change?

who holds the power in Scottish football? the big two or the FA?

yes, yes and the big two.

[TightEnd]

do most Scottish fans supporting a non top division team instinctively ally themselves to Celtic or Rangers? Is this taking place along religious or footballing lines?

for example I support Hamilton, or Dumbarton say.....will I have allegances in the big two, typically?

[Graham C]

Also the quality between the bottom of the SPL and top of 1st division isnt great like you say, but the gulf between say the top 4 teams in 1st division and the old firm is massive! and it would make the league less competitive in the sense that it "guarantees"(if there is such a thing) the old firm easy points a basically-games that you arent even worth playing!! it actually the reason I love the split format- I was sceptical at 1st but it makes the run in that wee bit more difficult and more exciting

but if the other teams only played the Old Firm twice a season, some of them could pick up enough points to compete for the title.  Teams get to the European spots of the EPL without beating the top 4.  The top 4 in the EPL don't win against each of the lower teams all the time, points are dropped and it gives the likes of Wigan (last season) Portsmouth, Man City, everyone else a chance of doing well.

Lower number of teams restricts the competition and creates a bigger divide between the more wealthy teams and the the rest of the league.

[Rod Paradise]

Is the Scottish FA as stupid as the English FA?

Lots of protection of vested interests? resistance to change?

who holds the power in Scottish football? the big two or the FA?

The SFA is made up of chairmen from clubs - David Will from Brechin was high up in UEFA & making judgements on competitions his club would never get into.

A fair bit of power was wrested away by the SPL, but it's ended up with 2 groups of incompetent vested interests interested in trips to big games & the draw in Monaco instead of one - and very little help at a grassroots level for Scottish football (all IMHO obviously).

The Big 2 don't have that much power any more (look at the nominations for hosting UEFA finals - Hampden is the only nominee despite Ibrox being elligible longest and Celtic Park being bigger, as the SFA wants the money, another example is the refusal to allow a winter break despite the big 2 wanting it).

[Rod Paradise]

do most Scottish fans supporting a non top division team instinctively ally themselves to Celtic or Rangers? Is this taking place along religious or footballing lines?

for example I support Hamilton, or Dumbarton say.....will I have allegances in the big two, typically?

Some do, there are '2 team supporters' my mate takes his boy to watch Queen's Park regularly but they're both Celtic fans - and some teams (Airdrie-Rangers, Albion Rovers-Celtic) have more obvious connections, but there has been a backlash against the Celtic & Rangers attempts to join the EPL & the monumental fuckup over the Sky/Setatnta TV deals and a lot of the fans of other clubs are automatically against the big 2.