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Author Topic: Complex Hand Analysis -THE FLOP - CUT OFF position  (Read 9616 times)
vampitup
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« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2005, 01:35:23 AM »

I think your action here has to be influenced by your perception of the player on the button.

If he is a weak/passive player then I prefer the check option as you will probably get the turn for free.

If he is a player who would make a bet in that position when it's checked to him multi-way on the flop then perhaps a bet in the 10-12k range is the best option. 

If that was the case however, you could check to him, and if he bets and it's folded round to you, think about the re-raise with the intention of getting him to pass, although it would help if he had more chips than in this example as he would be slightly pot-committed with a bet on the flop.
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Bongo
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« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2005, 01:49:33 AM »

Surely if the button is the type to bet then it may be best to let him do it?

That way you can see how the rest of the table react to this before making your decision.

Maybe he'll bet you out of the pot; but he could do that anyway after you bet and then you'll have saved you 10-12k.
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vampitup
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« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2005, 02:07:30 AM »

Fair point about letting him bet and then seeing how the rest of the players react to this bet - but if you check to him and let him bet and he is someone who would/could bet in that position, how much information have you really gained about his hand?

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NoflopsHomer
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« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2005, 02:55:21 AM »

If you're sure he's going to make a bet, then why not make the bet yourself, at least put the decision on him instead of you... The board is really too dangerous in a multiway pot for someone to slowplay trips or two pair. At least if you get called, you might get free cards further down the line.
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Harry Demetriou
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« Reply #19 on: November 04, 2005, 12:17:47 PM »

Personally I do not believe much has changed now that the flop has arrived and it is your turn to act in the cut off seat.

Despite nobody showing strength (the first four players have checked to you) I'm not sure I want to bet as I would have to fold if someone put a lumpy check raise in and I also have to think about the button.

If I bet and he moves all in (buttons most likely play if playing after I bet) then it depends on how much I bet as to whether or not I feel pot committed. If I bet too much and he goes all in then I almost have to call but if I bet quite small then I still have the option to fold but would have too few stealing rights as anyone with anything would have an easy call. Also becasue there are so many opponents it can't be all that bad to just be on the conservative side and to just check because if I do not hit on the next card I probably will not get the proper odds to call on the turn with any subsequent opponent bet(s). Also becasue of the flush draw I will have to bet more than a small bet to deny others an easy call.

Overall then personally I feel it is better to go for a free card and if the button bets then I am going to get an awful lot more information by the time it gets back to me so in summary I think I can gain more by checking than by betting which could only lead to me losing valuable chips if it goes wrong as I can't see myself winning that pot uncontested without a very big bet which frankly isn't worth it.

Also I may not actually have 8 outs for the winning hand as there could be other draws out there better than mine.

In a previous response I pointed out that some players like to go for a check raise in these situations if they hold a weak King for example but personally if I were in an earlier position I would bet into this kind of field with a made hand like top pair and make a decision if I got raised.

As for slow playing something like a set once again I would bet out something and await any sign of strength from rivals as the board with two hearts and two parts of likely straights out there in this field looks fairly dangerous.

In summary then if on the draw from any position I'm going for as cheap a turn card as possible becasue there are too many opponents and I can eaasily get pushed off a hand whilst with a made hand like top pair or better I am going to bet something and make a decision if raised.

Not that these hands are getting any easier to play but lets move on to the next stage.

Next Thread Title:

Complex Hand Analysis - THE FLOP - BACK TO THE SMALL BLIND



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tikay
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« Reply #20 on: November 04, 2005, 12:22:43 PM »


Harry - from all of us at blonde, thank you. We LOVE these.
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Harry Demetriou
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« Reply #21 on: November 04, 2005, 12:40:15 PM »


Harry - from all of us at blonde, thank you. We LOVE these.

I think it would mean more to us if you would offer your tuppence worth as after all you started all this ;-)
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tikay
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« Reply #22 on: November 04, 2005, 12:46:52 PM »

Bugger, I've been rumbled.

I'm just off to the Casino here in Moscow, but I'll have a read of the problem later, & put my response up.

No laughing please.

I took on Krill Gerasimov BIG TIME yesterday, I shocked him with my play, he'll not forget me in a hurry.

You guys are next.
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