UEFA CUP FINAL!

[bolt pp]

It wasn't really that bad, they're just letting off a bit of steam, smashed a couple of things up then went home.

As for the old bill most folk want to beat em up at the best of times so its not surprising a couple of them got hammered after a Scottish team loses the uefa cup final.

[Josedinho]

a lot of english posters on a few sites are getting up on thier high horses, damn cheek if you ask me.

oh and lets wait to see what happens next wednesday, surely a recipe for disaster

If it was an English team we'd have been banned from Europe. The Scots however are just good fun.

Nonsense and generalisations.

No team has been punished for what happens away from the ground, it is not within EUFA's remit.

You've just made the point so many are arguing against further up the thread - why should the Scots all be blamed for this?

Rangers were representing Scotland.

[thetank]

Hence all those Union Jacks.

[Rod Paradise]

a lot of english posters on a few sites are getting up on thier high horses, damn cheek if you ask me.

oh and lets wait to see what happens next wednesday, surely a recipe for disaster

If it was an English team we'd have been banned from Europe. The Scots however are just good fun.

Nonsense and generalisations.

No team has been punished for what happens away from the ground, it is not within EUFA's remit.

You've just made the point so many are arguing against further up the thread - why should the Scots all be blamed for this?

Rangers were representing Scotland.

As I said generalisations, the point about bannings still being nonsense, are we still debating?

[gatso]

I would say that Rangers were representing Rangers just as Celtic were representinf Celtic this year and Aberdeen, Aberdeen.

The only team to represent Scotland is Scotland

[Woodsey]

Yawn

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjDy8fYJcuw&feature=related

[Rod Paradise]

The Scots don't stir it up in the Tottenham v Arsenal, the Liverpool v Man Utd, etc etc. Usually if there is a comment it's relevant and adds to the debate.

Simply put - if you don't contribute - stay off. Anything else starts to be trolling.

[gatso]

I would say that Rangers were representing Rangers just as Celtic were representinf Celtic this year and Aberdeen, Aberdeen.

The only team to represent Scotland is Scotland

to expand on this so that the post actually has a point- I know of several large groups of English Rangers 'fans' who will have travelled up to Manchester for this game and let's say they're not shy of a little scrap. If any of this went off near them they will no doubt have been involved.
so to claim that this is a bad reflection on Scotland is wrong as those involved may not and in all probability were not all Scottish.

[bobby1]

The Scots don't stir it up in the Tottenham v Arsenal, the Liverpool v Man Utd, etc etc. Usually if there is a comment it's relevant and adds to the debate.

Simply put - if you don't contribute - stay off. Anything else starts to be trolling.

That is fantastic, a whole nation that spend most of their time trolling each other and you come up  with that Rod. Cmon mate try and at least see the full picture, the Rangers fans were to blame, not what the Daily Record tell the nation, it was the English trying to give Scots a bad name, it was Chelsea fans etc etc. It was the Scots acting like they were having a jolly up down in Blighty that are 100% to blame. To even think different is amazing.

[celtic]

The Scots don't stir it up in the Tottenham v Arsenal, the Liverpool v Man Utd, etc etc. Usually if there is a comment it's relevant and adds to the debate.

Simply put - if you don't contribute - stay off. Anything else starts to be trolling.

That is fantastic, a whole nation that spend most of their time trolling each other and you come up  with that Rod. Cmon mate try and at least see the full picture, the Rangers fans were to blame, not what the Daily Record tell the nation, it was the English trying to give Scots a bad name, it was Chelsea fans etc etc. It was the Scots acting like they were having a jolly up down in Blighty that are 100% to blame. To even think different is amazing.

Phil,

I consider you to be one of the most intelligent posters on blonde, but you are way of he mark here. It hurts me to defend rangers fans as i would prefer to bask in the glory of they f***ed it in manchester, we were the dogs nuts in seville blah blah blah, but, the simple truth is that Rangers have an element of followers from england, and in particular London, that are A. not interested in how Rangers perform on the park & B Like to travel to where they think they will get action. Manchester was perfect for them. Rangers have had 9 away games in europe this season, maybe they have had some arrests, maybe they haven't i dont follow them so dont know for sure, but they certainly haven't caused any problems to the extent of the manchester ones. YES there were scottish people arrested on wednesday, but believe me when i say that some of the trouble was organised, and was organised by ENGLISH Rangers 'fans'

I'm off to burn my laptop now that i have defended them.

[bobby1]

The Scots don't stir it up in the Tottenham v Arsenal, the Liverpool v Man Utd, etc etc. Usually if there is a comment it's relevant and adds to the debate.

Simply put - if you don't contribute - stay off. Anything else starts to be trolling.

That is fantastic, a whole nation that spend most of their time trolling each other and you come up  with that Rod. Cmon mate try and at least see the full picture, the Rangers fans were to blame, not what the Daily Record tell the nation, it was the English trying to give Scots a bad name, it was Chelsea fans etc etc. It was the Scots acting like they were having a jolly up down in Blighty that are 100% to blame. To even think different is amazing.

Phil,

I consider you to be one of the most intelligent posters on blonde, but you are way of he mark here. It hurts me to defend rangers fans as i would prefer to bask in the glory of they f***ed it in manchester, we were the dogs nuts in seville blah blah blah, but, the simple truth is that Rangers have an element of followers from england, and in particular London, that are A. not interested in how Rangers perform on the park & B Like to travel to where they think they will get action. Manchester was perfect for them. Rangers have had 9 away games in europe this season, maybe they have had some arrests, maybe they haven't i dont follow them so dont know for sure, but they certainly haven't caused any problems to the extent of the manchester ones. YES there were scottish people arrested on wednesday, but believe me when i say that some of the trouble was organised, and was organised by ENGLISH Rangers 'fans'

I'm off to burn my laptop now that i have defended them.

Celtic,

Thanks for the compliment. There were an estimated 100k Rangers fans in Manchester, you can't seriously be saying that the trouble was actually caused by English people that turned up to cause trouble can you?

The Rangers fans caused the trouble, the Scots mentality seems to be how dare anyone blame us for the trouble and then reel off any amount of 'other' reasons, and the way the Scottish media have covered it is a disgrace tho it seems to have washed over a lot of people.

[celtic]

The Scots don't stir it up in the Tottenham v Arsenal, the Liverpool v Man Utd, etc etc. Usually if there is a comment it's relevant and adds to the debate.

Simply put - if you don't contribute - stay off. Anything else starts to be trolling.

That is fantastic, a whole nation that spend most of their time trolling each other and you come up  with that Rod. Cmon mate try and at least see the full picture, the Rangers fans were to blame, not what the Daily Record tell the nation, it was the English trying to give Scots a bad name, it was Chelsea fans etc etc. It was the Scots acting like they were having a jolly up down in Blighty that are 100% to blame. To even think different is amazing.

Phil,

I consider you to be one of the most intelligent posters on blonde, but you are way of he mark here. It hurts me to defend rangers fans as i would prefer to bask in the glory of they f***ed it in manchester, we were the dogs nuts in seville blah blah blah, but, the simple truth is that Rangers have an element of followers from england, and in particular London, that are A. not interested in how Rangers perform on the park & B Like to travel to where they think they will get action. Manchester was perfect for them. Rangers have had 9 away games in europe this season, maybe they have had some arrests, maybe they haven't i dont follow them so dont know for sure, but they certainly haven't caused any problems to the extent of the manchester ones. YES there were scottish people arrested on wednesday, but believe me when i say that some of the trouble was organised, and was organised by ENGLISH Rangers 'fans'

I'm off to burn my laptop now that i have defended them.

Celtic,

Thanks for the compliment. There were an estimated 100k Rangers fans in Manchester, you can't seriously be saying that the trouble was actually caused by English people that turned up to cause trouble can you?

The Rangers fans caused the trouble, the Scots mentality seems to be how dare anyone blame us for the trouble and then reel off any amount of 'other' reasons, and the way the Scottish media have covered it is a disgrace tho it seems to have washed over a lot of people.

Yes Phil..... English people turned up in manchester, specifically to cause trouble. 100% They have also done it at Celtic games in England. ( i have personally witnessed it at Celtic games in Leicester, Chelsea & Tottenham) Some of the main trouble makers at the tottenham game were friends of mine) And they like to travel to look for & start trouble. FACT!!!

And yes there were scottish fans causing trouble too. Manchester & the police can't be blamed for Wednesday imo. Rangers fans English & Scottish and maybe other nationalities can be blamed however. Its NOt just a scottish problem i'm afraid.

[GlasgowBandit]

LOL at the comments about English fans, and Chelsea - always the same when Rangers travel excuses are at the ready, its a well known fact that Rangers have avery nasty element within their support who go to the football to cause trouble.  

From the sectarian "macabre" dance of doing the bouncy in celebration of Robert Hammel's death to the vile racist chants, no doubt there are elements from Englandshire and Norn Ireland who play a part in stoking up the trouble but ultimately the vast majority of the trouble makers stem from Glasgow.

From what I am led to believe by friends I have in Manchester the Old Bill weren't heavy handed but actually relaxed, having travelled all over Europe with Celtic including going down South for many games I think the English Cops attitude in general is pretty cool, they know that if the take a heavy handed approach its more likely to kick off.

I genuinley feel sorry for the decent Rangers fans who travelled down only to support their team in what was one of the biggest games they willl ever play in, yeah it was a minority that caused the trouble, but its a sizeable minority.  Have a look at the pictures available on the web and you will see.

My cousin, a 33 year old female took down her Son 16, Daughter 13 and Niece 17 and was attacked by a fellow Rangers fan when she condemend some of the behaviour.  She phoned her man who was down with a group of his mates and he told her just to jump a taxi to Blackpool and never mind what it cost.  Part of me felt sorry for her, but another part of me didn't feel so sorry, stupid feckin c*w has jumped on this Rangers bandwagon in the last few months and thinks its all great fun she brought it on herself but regardless she never deserved to be attacked.

Below is an article from Graham Spiers - IMO the most respected Sports Journalist in Scotland.

From The TimesMay 16, 2008

A club with a poison at its core Graham Spiers

Graham Spiers
Utterly predictably, the fate of Rangers is once again to find excitement on the field marred by loutishness and delinquency off it. Losing the Uefa Cup final in Manchester on Wednesday night was no disgrace for Walter Smith or his team, whose very presence at the game was a triumph in itself. Beyond the stadium, however, before and after the match, events told their own story of how accursed Rangers remain as a club.

Willie Waddell, a memorable Rangers manager of the early 1970s, whose team brought the 1972 European Cup Winners’ Cup back to Glasgow, once aimed the following simmering words in the direction of his club’s supporters: “It is to these tikes, hooligans, louts and drunkards that I pinpoint my message. It is because of your gutter-rat behaviour that we are being publicly tarred and feathered like this.”

After that European triumph of 36 years ago, Rangers were banned by Uefa for the rioting of their fans, causing Waddell to implode with rage. The blight of Rangers - defined by loutish behaviour and bigoted chanting among groups of supporters – is proving a durable social poison. Here we are four decades on, still lamenting the seemingly endemic way in which these supporters behave like primitives.

The chaotic scenes in Manchester on Wednesday night - a Zenit fan stabbed, rioting Rangers fans, and 15 policemen getting injured - were frightening to behold. Moreover, the footage released yesterday and shown on Sky News, of hundreds of Rangers fans charging at police and setting upon one who stumbled to the ground, will make the already weary Ibrox hierarchy cringe.

Rangers have a repeated get-out for these episodes: the script always says this is “just a small minority” of fans. Moreover, as incident upon incident passes with the club’s supporters - at Villarreal in 2006, in Pamplona in 2007 and now in Manchester in 2008 - it is always “heavy-handed policing” and not the Rangers fans themselves who are said to be the blame.

Well, this is no small minority of Rangers supporters, and nor are the Greater Manchester Police renowned for their truncheon-wielding brutality. Instead, this is a football club with a poison somewhere at its core.

Such scenes will enrage those legions of decent Rangers supporters who love their club and follow it with impressive ardour. The postmatch eruptions were all the more depressing on Wednesday because the vast Rangers support gathered inside the City of Manchester Stadium had created a brilliant spectacle of colour and noise, including many who stayed on to applaud the Zenit St Petersburg players on their 2-0 triumph.

Other aspects, however, were familiarly ugly. During the day before the match, and certainly in the drunken aftermath, there was too much evidence of the sort of primitivism that enraged Waddell 36 years ago. In particular, bigoted or sectarian chanting remains an excruciating pastime for too many Rangers supporters, despite repeated pleas by the club to give these anthems a rest. For two days in Manchester, if you were based in the city centre as I was, you woke up to these dirges in the morning and you went to sleep to them at night.

Since being punished by Uefa two years ago for such antics by their supporters, Rangers have hired PR people, as well as Kenny Scott, a seasoned and former high-ranking Glasgow policeman, to try to gouge out the social disease which has clamped itself to the club. Scott, in particular, knew very well the inherent dangers of 100,000 Rangers fans descending upon Manchester for the Uefa Cup final.

The downside of Rangers reaching such a prestigious game in as close an area as the north of England was that it was an open invitation for the club’s less impressive followers to display their capacity for drinking, aggression, and sectarian abuse. I would go so far as to say that Scott, as head of security at Rangers, will have been cringeing at the very prospect from the moment the club qualified for the final.

Some spoke yesterday of another Uefa investigation of Rangers, but this surely won’t occur. It is almost impossible for Uefa, however much they care about the image of football, to weigh in on such affairs as public disorder in the city centres of Britain.

But who has the answer to this blight? Can anyone offer Rangers a cure for this ugly delinquency which afflicts a sizeable group of their supporters?

Until that cure is found, the once-proud name of Rangers FC will always trigger thoughts of yobbishness and bigotry. The club, to be blunt, is paying a heavy price for its century-long antipathy towards signing Catholic players, a policy which planted this bitter harvest.

[Rod Paradise]

The Scots don't stir it up in the Tottenham v Arsenal, the Liverpool v Man Utd, etc etc. Usually if there is a comment it's relevant and adds to the debate.

Simply put - if you don't contribute - stay off. Anything else starts to be trolling.

That is fantastic, a whole nation that spend most of their time trolling each other and you come up  with that Rod. Cmon mate try and at least see the full picture, the Rangers fans were to blame, not what the Daily Record tell the nation, it was the English trying to give Scots a bad name, it was Chelsea fans etc etc. It was the Scots acting like they were having a jolly up down in Blighty that are 100% to blame. To even think different is amazing.

Bobby you got me TOTALLY wrong there. Why not read earlier in the thread where Celtic fans are getting stick for making the point that we've not had this trouble, that we don't deserve tarring with the same brush. They are slated by English posters for petty old firm point scoring. Then someone else comes on and shock horror - tars us with the same brush. Can you not see that being a bit galling?

And I'm sorry if it offends you but you can guarantee posts from english football fans that only serve to show the posters complete lack of knowledge when scots football is being discussed. As a contrast when there are arguments about english football the scots posts usually are relevant.

Quite simply put if people don't like the arguments about scottish football - don't read them. Posts with "yawn" are not needed.

[Rod Paradise]

The Scots don't stir it up in the Tottenham v Arsenal, the Liverpool v Man Utd, etc etc. Usually if there is a comment it's relevant and adds to the debate.

Simply put - if you don't contribute - stay off. Anything else starts to be trolling.

That is fantastic, a whole nation that spend most of their time trolling each other and you come up  with that Rod. Cmon mate try and at least see the full picture, the Rangers fans were to blame, not what the Daily Record tell the nation, it was the English trying to give Scots a bad name, it was Chelsea fans etc etc. It was the Scots acting like they were having a jolly up down in Blighty that are 100% to blame. To even think different is amazing.

Phil,

I consider you to be one of the most intelligent posters on blonde, but you are way of he mark here. It hurts me to defend rangers fans as i would prefer to bask in the glory of they f***ed it in manchester, we were the dogs nuts in seville blah blah blah, but, the simple truth is that Rangers have an element of followers from england, and in particular London, that are A. not interested in how Rangers perform on the park & B Like to travel to where they think they will get action. Manchester was perfect for them. Rangers have had 9 away games in europe this season, maybe they have had some arrests, maybe they haven't i dont follow them so dont know for sure, but they certainly haven't caused any problems to the extent of the manchester ones. YES there were scottish people arrested on wednesday, but believe me when i say that some of the trouble was organised, and was organised by ENGLISH Rangers 'fans'

I'm off to burn my laptop now that i have defended them.

Celtic,

Thanks for the compliment. There were an estimated 100k Rangers fans in Manchester, you can't seriously be saying that the trouble was actually caused by English people that turned up to cause trouble can you?

The Rangers fans caused the trouble, the Scots mentality seems to be how dare anyone blame us for the trouble and then reel off any amount of 'other' reasons, and the way the Scottish media have covered it is a disgrace tho it seems to have washed over a lot of people.

Yes Phil..... English people turned up in manchester, specifically to cause trouble. 100% They have also done it at Celtic games in England. ( i have personally witnessed it at Celtic games in Leicester, Chelsea & Tottenham) Some of the main trouble makers at the tottenham game were friends of mine) And they like to travel to look for & start trouble. FACT!!!

And yes there were scottish fans causing trouble too. Manchester & the police can't be blamed for Wednesday imo. Rangers fans English & Scottish and maybe other nationalities can be blamed however. Its NOt just a scottish problem i'm afraid.

Sorry celtic - I'm not going to disagree with your facts, but if a club's fans make these friendships they need to police them too. The connections between the more extreme Rangers fans and the hooligan element of a few English teams is not a  new thing. The blame still lies with Rangers, sorry.

I've seen this with Celtic and the St Pauli, Croatia Zagreb & Ferencvaros fans, all of whom have turned up in fair numbers to watch Celtic in Europe, if they're at a european game to watch Celtic, it their Celtic friends' job to explain the standards expected (there was a tense stand-off at one game between the left wing St Pauli & the right wing Ferencvaros) that was a bit scary by all reports).

One other problem that both Celtic and Rangers face in europe are the 'stag-do' fans. The ones who go because they can misbehave. I'm not sure our good rep will last too long with the increasing amounts of them on the Celtic side.