Live £100nl... How bad did I play this?

[gribbo]

Am playing a 7 handed £100nl cash game with a few friends and older guys I haven't played with before. This is first hand I have tangled with villain.

How bad did I play this hand?

Current state Hero:  Paying decent poker sitting on around £160

Villain: Friend of mine, solid player definitely a winner in this game has around £130

I am on the SB and villain is on the button.

Preflop I have 

Villain raises to £4

I call for £3

I "check in the dark" flop comes  Villain checks behind

Turn is a  I lead for £5, Villain calls

River is a  I bet £17, Villain raises to £60

Call/Fold? all comments welcome. Will discuss thought(s) afterwards

[bolt pp]

call then cry then dont check in the dark anymore, you're not phil hellmuth

[GreekStein]

call then cry then dont check in the dark anymore, you're not Phil Hellmuth

I think ur beat but call and cry when he shows u AQ or JJ.

[x_posed]

Obviously checking dark is the biggest mistake here but would it really have changed the outcome of the hand if he made a small bet on the flop to build the pot a little? I mean, if the villain has AQ and he calls the turn hoping to catch a 10 or an A then he would prob call a small bet on the flop as the turn changes nothing really (unless he has 77 obv). If he has JJ then obviously he isn't going anywhere. He may have a busted flush draw and if he is a good friend you will know if he is capable of making this move with nothing.

I call here hoping for busted flush or KJ. I am by no means saying that checking in the dark was the correct thing to do but I don't really see how the hand would have been played much differently either way.

[GreekStein]

Obviously checking dark is the biggest mistake here but would it really have changed the outcome of the hand if he made a small bet on the flop to build the pot a little? I mean, if the villain has AQ and he calls the turn hoping to catch a 10 or an A then he would prob call a small bet on the flop as the turn changes nothing really (unless he has 77 obv). If he has JJ then obviously he isn't going anywhere. He may have a busted flush draw and if he is a good friend you will know if he is capable of making this move with nothing.

I call here hoping for busted flush or KJ. I am by no means saying that checking in the dark was the correct thing to do but I don't really see how the hand would have been played much differently either way.

Whether the end result would have been the same or not is irrelevant here, we are looking at the optimal way to play a hand. We don't want hero to keep thinking that checking dark in hands is doing him any favours

[AlexMartin]

fold river, u said he's decent, which means he realises this is a shit spot to bluff. He's not value-raising worse and hes not bluffing, hence fold. fwiw ppl at those stakes dont normally bluff enough, so you can weight their river raising ranges accordingly.

[GrannyDee]

I'm with Alex on this one. Villian is decent, you have shown you like you hand, Villian seems to like his better. Can't see this ever being a bluff unless he is extremely tricky and unorthodox. Bigger sets are beating you and there's a couple of straights there as well though I'd imagine 89 is unlikely.

Big question is that is Villian value betting two pair here don't think he can be given the action so its a fold.

[x_posed]

I'm with Alex on this one. Villian is decent, you have shown you like you hand, Villian seems to like his better. Can't see this ever being a bluff unless he is extremely tricky and unorthodox. Bigger sets are beating you and there's a couple of straights there as well though I'd imagine 89 is unlikely.

Big question is that is Villian value betting two pair here don't think he can be given the action so its a fold.

I'm just curious as to how you come to this conclusion. I'm not a cash player so a lot of other players thoughts are gonna be more accurate than mine but if you were villain and held KJ would you not value bet this? If not why? I feel that heroes set is very well hidden here and if I was said villain I would prob put in a raise with top 2.

[GrannyDee]

I'm with Alex on this one. Villian is decent, you have shown you like you hand, Villian seems to like his better. Can't see this ever being a bluff unless he is extremely tricky and unorthodox. Bigger sets are beating you and there's a couple of straights there as well though I'd imagine 89 is unlikely.

Big question is that is Villian value betting two pair here don't think he can be given the action so its a fold.

I'm just curious as to how you come to this conclusion. I'm not a cash player so a lot of other players thoughts are gonna be more accurate than mine but if you were villain and held KJ would you not value bet this? If not why? I feel that heroes set is very well hidden here and if I was said villain I would prob put in a raise with top 2.

I believe our hero would've heard from KJ by now can't see him checking behind to the dark check on the flop with the potential flush draw out there or Villian just calling the turn bet, surely KJ would be raising these two streets if he had that hand could be wrong though as I don't know our opponent, JT is possible. Still think this is a fold as people don't river bluff often enough to warrant a call.

[gribbo]

I ended up folding the hand, the only thing I beat is if he is making a thin value raise with two pair or making a total bluff. He could have easily checked the flop with a set of Jacks or Kings as he knows im going to be blasting a high % of my hands on the turn if he checks behind on the flop. A tough situation to play tbh, thanks for the comments.

[AlexMartin]

I ended up folding the hand, the only thing I beat is if he is making a thin value raise with two pair or making a total bluff. He could have easily checked the flop with a set of Jacks or Kings as he knows im going to be blasting a high % of my hands on the turn if he checks behind on the flop. A tough situation to play tbh, thanks for the comments.

what did he have? u said he's ur mate.

[gribbo]

Just text him there, said he had  and was just calling turn to bluff river, he owned me pretty well.

[AlexMartin]

Just text him there, said he had  and was just calling turn to bluff river, he owned me pretty well.

meh, blx

[UpTheMariners]

fold really? er... im thinking whether to call or shove. reraise pre also.

he sounds like a good player bluffing with decent showdown value.

[AlexMartin]

fold really? er... im thinking whether to call or shove. reraise pre also.

he sounds like a good player bluffing with decent showdown value.

expand pls