just need opinions

[MANTIS01]

I'm afraid James is wrong about this. I think it's something born out of the internet game. How someone reacts to a bet both physically and strategically gives you information, information that you wouldn't have if you didn't bet. But don't take my word for it cos Kin asked yoyo in the well if he bet for info and he said "i guess all bets are information, so yeah". End of really. I understand the concept but it has just melted into don't bet for info.

raising/betting with the intention of folding is so easy to exploit by any1 half decent.

If you were betting with the intention of folding you wouldn't be betting for info, info to help you decide how to play the hand. Cos you would have already decided how your gonna play it, you're gonna fold, and that decision was based on NO information. Namely, I am weak so will bet out to prove that to myself. People who say they bet to find out where they stand are not betting for info. They are jut betting cos they are weak. So in the same way you could bet air here with the intention of folding...and you still wouldn't be betting for info.

hey mantis, I think your posts have improved tremendously since you first started posting but this is bad imo. it's fine to raise air cos you is bluffing. it's fine to raise your strong hands cos you is betting for value and happy to get all in. The middling inbetween hands by definition have showdown value. The money you burn raise/folding you could spend calling a couple of streets and maybe catch him bluffing or value betting a worse hand. Obv you can also fold if new info makes you think he has a better hand.

now this does mean that we have polarised our raising range here between nuts and bluffs and hopefully someone else (flushy maybe?) can tell us about balancing our range to be more unreadable here.

Walsall Grosvenor £50 re-buy last Friday. On the second hand of the night I call a 150 raise on the button with whatever. We go to the flop 3-handed...they both check...I bet a purposely small 150. This bet is for info. It is early and I want to know how the other two will react to this small bet. They both snap fold. And on we go. I know for any future hand vs them a small bet works well, so no need to bet big to steal. That's pretty good info to know. Just one example of betting for information.

[Royal Flush]

I'm afraid James is wrong about this. I think it's something born out of the internet game. How someone reacts to a bet both physically and strategically gives you information, information that you wouldn't have if you didn't bet. But don't take my word for it cos Kin asked yoyo in the well if he bet for info and he said "i guess all bets are information, so yeah". End of really. I understand the concept but it has just melted into don't bet for info.

raising/betting with the intention of folding is so easy to exploit by any1 half decent.

If you were betting with the intention of folding you wouldn't be betting for info, info to help you decide how to play the hand. Cos you would have already decided how your gonna play it, you're gonna fold, and that decision was based on NO information. Namely, I am weak so will bet out to prove that to myself. People who say they bet to find out where they stand are not betting for info. They are jut betting cos they are weak. So in the same way you could bet air here with the intention of folding...and you still wouldn't be betting for info.

hey mantis, I think your posts have improved tremendously since you first started posting but this is bad imo. it's fine to raise air cos you is bluffing. it's fine to raise your strong hands cos you is betting for value and happy to get all in. The middling inbetween hands by definition have showdown value. The money you burn raise/folding you could spend calling a couple of streets and maybe catch him bluffing or value betting a worse hand. Obv you can also fold if new info makes you think he has a better hand.

now this does mean that we have polarised our raising range here between nuts and bluffs and hopefully someone else (flushy maybe?) can tell us about balancing our range to be more unreadable here.

Walsall Grosvenor £50 re-buy last Friday. On the second hand of the night I call a 150 raise on the button with whatever. We go to the flop 3-handed...they both check...I bet a purposely small 150. This bet is for info. It is early and I want to know how the other two will react to this small bet. They both snap fold. And on we go. I know for any future hand vs them a small bet works well, so no need to bet big to steal. That's pretty good info to know. Just one example of betting for information.

It probably they meant had nothing....

That bet is whats called a bluff, see you won the pot, far more useful than info.


Arisghsgihsgg being dragged into it by a man who describes poker hands as stories!!!!

[MANTIS01]

Posted by: Royal Flush

It probably they meant had nothing....

That bet is whats called a bluff, see you won the pot, far more useful than info.

It also meant they fold nothing cheaply. See pot + info. Everyone's a winner.

I thought you liked my stories?

[George2Loose]

If one of them had bet 150 would u have folded?

[MANTIS01]

If one of them had bet 150 would u have folded?

They are probably betting for info at this point so maybe not

[George2Loose]

If one of them had bet 150 would u have folded?

They are probably betting for info at this point so maybe not

Would u then re raise for info to find out if they're betting for info?

[Hairydude]

All you've learned is they wont call a small bet with nothing EARLY in a tournament- so later in the tournament when players will be changing gears and the blinds are a lot higher you can expect players to play back at you-even with air!!! suppose you can always use the info in next weeks £50 rebuy to win with the same bet and again hope they have nothing

I know I'm a fish but seriously that line you've taken seems seriously flawed

[noble1]

If i am sat at this table and see you play this hand i am insta putting a note on you that reads maniac/clueless and i will delete one of those at a later date because you have either made some crazy spewy CR bluff on the first level or have CR a hand with value and then folded, either way you are a bad player so i don't need to know your hand.

lmao and i will note the norse donk cannot fold 2 pair ... 

you still have not explained how you would approach this situation, is there a reason for this flushy? from all the nonsense you have written so far all you do is criticize but offer no WHY.. from all your sound advice all i have learnt is if i play your way never fold 2 pair approach i would be a buy in of $1000 down and be out of an mtt in the 1st 15 minutes.. genius 

[bolt pp]

If i am sat at this table and see you play this hand i am insta putting a note on you that reads maniac/clueless and i will delete one of those at a later date because you have either made some crazy spewy CR bluff on the first level or have CR a hand with value and then folded, either way you are a bad player so i don't need to know your hand.

lmao and i will note the norse donk cannot fold 2 pair ... 

you still have not explained how you would approach this situation, is there a reason for this flushy? from all the nonsense you have written so far all you do is criticize but offer no WHY.. from all your sound advice all i have learnt is if i play your way never fold 2 pair approach i would be a buy in of $1000 down and be out of an mtt in the 1st 15 minutes.. genius 

lol,

noble for mod!!!!!!!!

[MANTIS01]

All you've learned is they wont call a small bet with nothing EARLY in a tournament- so later in the tournament when players will be changing gears and the blinds are a lot higher you can expect players to play back at you-even with air!!! suppose you can always use the info in next weeks £50 rebuy to win with the same bet and again hope they have nothing

I know I'm a fish but seriously that line you've taken seems seriously flawed

For this line to be seriously flawed dude you'd have to discount any information you get from any hand...cos that info might not be valid next hand. What about the fact that both players checked really quick before they folded? Could speed of their action signal their intent...not only in this hand but future hands a well? What about the fact they folded without thought when I bet? Doesn't this give you a general profile of the type of player you're up against? Would Flushy raise pre-flop early on then check-snap-fold when I bet 150 and he missed? People have habits dude and taking note of those habits is part of poker no?

[Royal Flush]

If i am sat at this table and see you play this hand i am insta putting a note on you that reads maniac/clueless and i will delete one of those at a later date because you have either made some crazy spewy CR bluff on the first level or have CR a hand with value and then folded, either way you are a bad player so i don't need to know your hand.

lmao and i will note the norse donk cannot fold 2 pair ... 

you still have not explained how you would approach this situation, is there a reason for this flushy? from all the nonsense you have written so far all you do is criticize but offer no WHY.. from all your sound advice all i have learnt is if i play your way never fold 2 pair approach i would be a buy in of $1000 down and be out of an mtt in the 1st 15 minutes.. genius 

oppo dependant, b/3b or c/r 3 bet jam is my most likely line.

Terms like "cannot fold 2 pair" are holding you back, i guess you play live a fair bit because its the kinda tosh i here at a £50rebuy. I can't fold top 2 here when i have played it this way because it would be like burning money and given my aim is to win money i prefer to call.

[Royal Flush]

Would Flushy raise pre-flop early on then check-snap-fold when I bet 150 and he missed?

If i was checking to fold then yes i would do it hastily.

[bolt pp]

Ive noticed a trend in your posts noble and it is that most of them start with: "you have not explained.................."

You seem to do this regardless of how many times a concept has been explained to you or in how many different ways.

now do you imagine you are in fact correct and that these top online internet cash game/mtt pros that are unequivocally the most competent posters here whether it be elucidating general strategies for others or analysing individual hands are in fact incapable of explaining simple poker concepts or that you are in fact getting it but think its all such nonsense and dont want to take any notice, well the answer is no, it's neither, it's option 3, no matter how many times something is explained that isnt consistent with your own thoughts about it you simply have no countenance for it which is why everyone else can see what is being explained quite clearly except you.

(yes option 3 sounds remarkably like option 2 but it was a polite way of saying that you should change the start of every post you make from: "you havnt explained" to: "I dont get........")

[noble1]

very well put bolt,but all i ask is why i shove 2 pair for all my stack [166bb] and put my mtt life on 2 pair holding up.
plenty say shove but give no reason except ''you have 2 pair - shove'' or ''this could be a cooler but you have 2 pair - shove''

that is why i keep asking for a explanation as to why to all the above

[bolt pp]

[  ] i have slept in the last 48 hours
[X] i'm going to sleep now
[X] I'm gonna wake up in a few hours and stay up the next two days but get so mashed i dont remember it
[  ] you will have got this by then
[X] gl with all your poker endevours(sort of)

laters people.