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Author Topic: Squeeze play  (Read 49930 times)
Graham C
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« on: December 29, 2008, 01:37:27 PM »

This learning centre is good, I can post my should-know-by-now shit here and it's ok Smiley

For example,

I'm faily low stack with about 12 big blinds at 150/300.  Folds to the cut off who limps as does the button.  I'm in the small blind with pocket 3's.  The two limpers have huge stacks compared to me (10k+).

Should I shove here?
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tikay
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« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2008, 01:41:29 PM »

This learning centre is good, I can post my should-know-by-now shit here and it's ok Smiley

For example,

I'm faily low stack with about 12 big blinds at 150/300.  Folds to the cut off who limps as does the button.  I'm in the small blind with pocket 3's.  The two limpers have huge stacks compared to me (10k+).

Should I shove here?

Absolutely not. Fold quickly.
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Longy
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« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2008, 01:43:28 PM »

This learning centre is good, I can post my should-know-by-now shit here and it's ok Smiley

For example,

I'm faily low stack with about 12 big blinds at 150/300.  Folds to the cut off who limps as does the button.  I'm in the small blind with pocket 3's.  The two limpers have huge stacks compared to me (10k+).

Should I shove here?

Hmmm this is probably close with 3's here, but i would shove in an mtt especially if there is antes andthe co & btn have not shown a propensity to call stupid light.

Shove>Call>>>>> Fold imo
« Last Edit: December 29, 2008, 01:46:06 PM by Longy » Logged
gatso
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« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2008, 01:47:43 PM »

why did you post on the lc? I can't be rude and sarcy now. wanted to post

[ ] this is a squeeze play

but I'm probs not allowed to

a squeeze play (pre flop) is when we go over the top of a raise and 1 or more calls, ideally with the original raiser being loose. same thing on later streets but with a bet and call(s).



in the situation in the op I'm not shoving this. you've got 2 big stacks already in and the BB still to act, not a great spot and 12BB is not dessperate enough
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Graham C
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« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2008, 01:50:45 PM »

why did you post on the lc? I can't be rude and sarcy now. wanted to post

100% the reason Cheesy

thanks for the replies
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tikay
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« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2008, 01:53:00 PM »

why did you post on the lc? I can't be rude and sarcy now. wanted to post

[ ] this is a squeeze play

but I'm probs not allowed to

a squeeze play (pre flop) is when we go over the top of a raise and 1 or more calls, ideally with the original raiser being loose. same thing on later streets but with a bet and call(s).



in the situation in the op I'm not shoving this. you've got 2 big stacks already in and the BB still to act, not a great spot and 12BB is not dessperate enough

Agreed, except amend "not desperate enough", to "not even desperate, this is cruise-mode stack".

And add, at this juncture of a Tourney, with this stack, get your money in first. With anything.

If ONE of the limpers calls (& we are assuming the BB does not wake up with a big hand), then the second limper is almost certain to come along, as well. How do you like your pocket threes now, facing 4 overs minimum, possibly 1 or even 2 overpairs? Not much.

There, I've said it. Now the Upstarts can flame me, instead of you. Neat, eh?
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Graham C
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« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2008, 01:58:49 PM »

Cheers.  I usually do wait to get in first but whilst I was in ok shape technically, I was a long way behind everyone else with the average being around 8k.   I seem to get low in the mid stages of comps and was just wondering if I should be looking to do something in these situations as perhaps I was missing an opportunity.   

I just limped in the end, then folded when I obviously missed my set. 
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TheChipPrince
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« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2008, 02:00:49 PM »

Shove>Call>>>>> Fold imo

This.
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« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2008, 02:08:56 PM »

DEF shove!
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tikay
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« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2008, 02:09:55 PM »

Cheers.  I usually do wait to get in first but whilst I was in ok shape technically, I was a long way behind everyone else with the average being around 8k.   I seem to get low in the mid stages of comps and was just wondering if I should be looking to do something in these situations as perhaps I was missing an opportunity.   

I just limped in the end, then folded when I obviously missed my set. 

So what? Don't be fixated by the bigger stacks. Be lazy. Let them do the work, & bust each other. You can find a zillion better spots than this.

I'm talking, of course, about Live Play, not Online.
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« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2008, 02:13:44 PM »

im shoving here with my hand in the air.

If ONE of the limpers calls (& we are assuming the BB does not wake up with a big hand), then the second limper is almost certain to come along, as well.

this isnt true, they only have 30x stacks and cant just peel off a 12x light.
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« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2008, 02:20:44 PM »

im shoving here with my hand in the air.

If ONE of the limpers calls (& we are assuming the BB does not wake up with a big hand), then the second limper is almost certain to come along, as well.

this isnt true, they only have 30x stacks and cant just peel off a 12x light.

this. People still need to find some sort of hand to call you with. My chips are in.
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Graham C
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« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2008, 02:21:47 PM »

Hmmm, so I am possibly missing a trick.
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Longy
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« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2008, 02:22:26 PM »

Cheers.  I usually do wait to get in first but whilst I was in ok shape technically, I was a long way behind everyone else with the average being around 8k.   I seem to get low in the mid stages of comps and was just wondering if I should be looking to do something in these situations as perhaps I was missing an opportunity.   

I just limped in the end, then folded when I obviously missed my set. 

So what? Don't be fixated by the bigger stacks. Be lazy. Let them do the work, & bust each other. You can find a zillion better spots than this.

I'm talking, of course, about Live Play, not Online.

Why?

I know you and I are going to fundamentally disagree on how much wriggle room there is with a 12bb stack. If we shove we are rarely going to get two calls so the 4 overs arguement is a bit pointless, even if we do get called by 4 overs we are probably getting a great price to triple through anyway.

I haven't done the maths but i would be surprised if folding is better than shoving, we should be looking at whether this is +ev or not. Players always over estimate their edge further down the line, you gain your edge by making the correct decision by getting spots like this right.

I can't see how folding is better than calling we are getting very nice price to set mine 33 as long as the bb doesn't raise a lot in this spot.
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tikay
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« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2008, 02:24:19 PM »

im shoving here with my hand in the air.

If ONE of the limpers calls (& we are assuming the BB does not wake up with a big hand), then the second limper is almost certain to come along, as well.

this isnt true, they only have 30x stacks and cant just peel off a 12x light.

this. People still need to find some sort of hand to call you with. My chips are in.

...well, if they are half-bright, they KNOW your Range here is enormous, &, after all, as the Thread Title suggests, this might look like a squeeze, to pick up 1,050 of dead money. (25% of our stack).

Pop to the loo, go have a fag, order a cup of tea & a bacon sarny, no need to be panicking yet awhile.
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