Stud8 hand

[spence]

While I'm more comfortable in Stud8 than I used to be (during the WSOPE I felt exposed and unsure on several stud8 hands) its still the withered limb of my HORSE game.

I'm curious what anyone who plays Stud8 thinks of the pumps on 3rd and the bet on 4th?

PokerStars Game #23430837325:  HORSE (7 Card Stud Hi/Lo Limit, $100/$200) - 2008/12/31 8:52:35 ET
Table ‘Tucana III’ 8-max
Seat 1: spence79 ($7177.75 in chips)
Seat 2: bennyboy_k ($567.50 in chips)
Seat 3: Jin_ ($1692.50 in chips)
Seat 4: mynoli ($6725.50 in chips)
Seat 7: thaaj2004 ($2448 in chips)
Seat 8: ozenc ($5154.50 in chips)
thaaj2004: posts the ante $20
ozenc: posts the ante $20
spence79: posts the ante $20
bennyboy_k: posts the ante $20
Jin_: posts the ante $20
mynoli: posts the ante $20
*** 3rd STREET ***
Dealt to spence79 [ ]
Dealt to bennyboy_k []
Dealt to Jin_ []
Dealt to mynoli []
Dealt to thaaj2004 []
Dealt to ozenc []
mynoli: brings in for $30
thaaj2004: calls $30
ozenc: folds
spence79: raises $70 to $100
bennyboy_k: raises $100 to $200
Jin_: folds
mynoli: calls $170
thaaj2004: calls $170
spence79: raises $100 to $300
bennyboy_k: raises $100 to $400
Betting is capped
mynoli: calls $200
thaaj2004: calls $200
spence79: calls $100
*** 4th STREET ***
Dealt to spence79 [ ] []
Dealt to bennyboy_k [] []
Dealt to mynoli [] []
Dealt to thaaj2004 [] []
thaaj2004: checks
spence79: bets $100

[AlexMartin]

aint got a clue, but v interested to learn. i play superstud.........

[NoflopsHomer]

Jamming 3rd seems fine to me with 3 to a wheel. Do you read bennyboy_k for something like buried aces? Although could also be possible? I'd get worried if he and mynoli start getting in a capping war. Don't like the 4th street bet, you could be likely drawing to the second best low already. If bennyboy_k bets and mynoli raises I think you might have to dump it rather than get in the middle and if you do get to 5th, you probably need an Ace, Trey or Six to proceed, especially if mynoli catches good.

[Sweetman]

The pump on third seems fine to me, Id prefer to check call on 4th, if he has 4 to a low, he can guage where he stands against your exposed 5 8, whereas you have less of a clue against his exposed 5 6.

From the 3rd street action, Id say he has 345, 555 (unlikely as you have a 5), AA5 or maybe three low spades inc the Ace.  The 8 may look like a decent card to you, but youre not doing well against this guys range at this point, and I would have preferred a check call on 4th.

The only way I bet out here is if I catch a trey or an Ace, I may bet a 6 too if he catches bad.

[spence]

Thanks for responses.  Ranges are wider than people assume, with the exception of ozenc the rest of us tend towards hyperaggressive.  Glad to hear 3rd is a trivial pump.  Checking 4th just felt wrong after the bloat.  I discounted mynoli's strength a lot because I would expect him to have 3 bet a 3wheel or small 3flush.  Asu such I thought there was a fair chance he'd paired the 6 and my low should be best most of time when you include the times he started with a pair.  If the 6 has tripped him then I'm happy to catch the other likely high hands in the middle of a raising war aren't I?  And if my leading causes someone to drop out here on 5th facing two bets then that should be good for me after the preflop bloat.

Checking and being faced with 2 or 3 bets back to me didn't appeal as I don't really see how it's possible to fold even then, so leading seemed both a likely value play and keeping the initiative might increase my chances of narrowing the field before 6th, which I'll certainly want if I pair 5th.

My thinking could be heavily flawed here tho.

[Compo]

aint got a clue, but v interested to learn. i play superstud.........

How true.

You have to jam pre-4th here then slow down as your showing 8 low at best. you need runner runner to scoop if youre lucky. if you call one more bet youre in the for the long haul. Also if you bet youre starting to price any low draw in as they know you have 8 low at best (currently). suck it up and fold to any bet.

[spence]

suck it up and fold to any bet.

Folding wasn't even a consideraton, after the bloat it has to horrible.  We have way too much equity.  8 isn't ideal but it is a good card.  If you're considering folding on 4th then you're ranging your opponents too tightly.

Also not worth starting another thread for but here's another interesting stud8 hand:

PokerStars Game #24181446393:  HORSE (7 Card Stud Hi/Lo Limit, $200/$400) - 2009/01/23 0:22:14 ET
Table 'Ristenpart' 8-max
Seat 2: TorontoToro ($9895.75 in chips)
Seat 3: Buzzer1404 ($5980 in chips)
Seat 4: detwan ($27263.50 in chips)
Seat 6: DuckU ($5285 in chips)
Seat 7: spence79 ($5017 in chips)
Seat 8: luvgamble ($3617 in chips)
DuckU: posts the ante $40
spence79: posts the ante $40
luvgamble: posts the ante $40
TorontoToro: posts the ante $40
Buzzer1404: posts the ante $40
detwan: posts the ante $40
*** 3rd STREET ***
Dealt to TorontoToro []
Dealt to Buzzer1404 []
Dealt to detwan []
Dealt to DuckU []
Dealt to spence79 [ ]
Dealt to luvgamble []
Buzzer1404: brings in for $60
detwan: raises $140 to $200
DuckU: folds
spence79: calls $200
luvgamble: raises $200 to $400
TorontoToro: folds
Buzzer1404: folds
detwan: calls $200
methanaman has returned
spence79: calls $200
*** 4th STREET ***
Dealt to detwan [] []
Dealt to spence79 [ ] []
Dealt to luvgamble [] []
detwan: checks
spence79: checks
luvgamble: bets $200
detwan: calls $200
spence79: calls $200
*** 5th STREET ***
Dealt to detwan [ ] []
Dealt to spence79 [ ] []
Dealt to luvgamble [ ] []
luvgamble: bets $400
detwan: calls $400
spence79: calls $400
*** 6th STREET ***
Dealt to detwan [ ] []
Dealt to spence79 [ ] [Ah]
Dealt to luvgamble [ ] []
spence79: checks
luvgamble: bets $400
detwan: folds
spence79: calls $400
*** RIVER ***
Dealt to spence79 [ Ah]

spence79: checks luvgamble: checks *** SHOW DOWN *** spence79: shows [ Ah ] (HI: two pair, Kings and Tens) luvgamble: mucks hand spence79 collected $4097 from pot Seat 8: luvgamble mucked [ ] I was snap calling a river bet.

[Compo]

See you at the tables