"Dusk till Dawn" Poker Club In Nottingham Diary (by Rob Yong)

[Rod Paradise]

YES BOODER - WINNING IS EVERTHING - HAHA

We have exactly the same 2005 licence as the casinos - so lets get the blackjack and roulette wheels ordered - only joking, I should be allowed a little joke after all this stress.............

You should have a free roulette table at the door - everyone takes a spin & a free meal for the winner - "the only way to play the Wheel of Death in here"

Congrats Rob (the certificate should have all sort of official seals etc on it though )

[Bainn]

YES BOODER - WINNING IS EVERTHING - HAHA

We have exactly the same 2005 licence as the casinos - so lets get the blackjack and roulette wheels ordered - only joking, I should be allowed a little joke after all this stress.............

You should have a free roulette table at the door - everyone takes a spin & a free meal for the winner - "the only way to play the Wheel of Death in here"

Congrats Rob (the certificate should have all sort of official seals etc on it though )

I think just outside the door would be safer...

[robyong]

I noticed a few comments on BP about dtd not renewing DC's sponsorship contract in 2008. I would like to say for the record that this has absolutley nothing to do with DC, it is 100% a consequence of the last 12-18 months of delays in the opening of the live club.

These delays have cost dtd over £950k in legal fees and running costs,  the online business has also made a net loss of £350k so far in 2007. Despite this financial crisis and the fact that I have been personally paying all costs , I still decided that dtd must still honour all financial committments for 2007 made with suppliers, employees and sponsored players (committments that were made with live club revenues in the financial budget).

After finally winning the fight to open the live club, we are now only 4 weeks away from opening the live club - but we are not opening a casino - we are only opening a poker club, with limited opportunity to make any instant profits.

Taking on contracts to sponsor poker players is simply not be an option in 2008,  the recent escalation in EPT and EWSOP buy-ins, makes it is even more unviable. It would be wholly unfair to take on committments that we could not afford at present, and there has to be some financial consquences of the last 12-18 months. It is very unfortunate that contracts such as DC's cannot be renewed, but there is not a "bottomless pit" in dtd, and I am personally really proud that we did not make any redundancies or try and duck out of any financial promises in 2007, when things have been really tough, going forward, we have to get ourselves back on our feet financially.

I have always been open about the postion at dtd, and that remains. Okay, we took on the big boys, and we won the battle, but we have plenty of scars to show for it. I really hope people can appreicate this.

Cheers Rob

[MPOWER]

Honest and open as always.

 

And Good luck

Regards

M

[Bainn]

Things change and all involved have benefited and parted respecting each other.

All the very best,

Bainn & Harmony.

[TheChipPrince]

Thanks Rob, I didnt realise that the online DTD was running at a loss though, does surprise me...

[HOLDorFOLD]

Thanks Rob, I didnt realise that the online dtd was running at a loss though, does surprise me...

I am surprised at this as well, although my financial knowledge of online gaming sites is very limited to say the least.   I have only recently been able to actually start playing on DTD and it's my site of the moment (ahem, sorry blonde  ).   The SNG's fill up quickly, the HH Tourny's are popular (my faves) and the HU 5 level shoot-outs fill up very quickly (could do with more of those added to the listing). 


All the best for DTD's future

[Paullie_D]

Thanks Rob, I didnt realise that the online dtd was running at a loss though, does surprise me...

With respect, he didn't say it was running at a loss (although it might be FAIK) but showing a net loss for 2007.

I'd assume (careful now), that the start-up costs (infrastructure, servers, upfront costs to the skin provider etc.) might be a factor there if my assumption is right.

[vegaslover]

I know you have no interest in doing so Rob, but I think you should consider maybe one roulette and blackjack table. Most players like an occasional game and you cant run at a loss forever!
Besides, you offered the casinos the offer of never having them and they declined

[Woodsey]

Thanks Rob, I didnt realise that the online dtd was running at a loss though, does surprise me...

With respect, he didn't say it was running at a loss (although it might be FAIK) but showing a net loss for 2007.

I'd assume (careful now), that the start-up costs (infrastructure, servers, upfront costs to the skin provider etc.) might be a factor there if my assumption is right.

Who cares its got nothing to do with us anyway. TBH I can't think of a faster way of pissing money away than sponsoring players, I work in sales and marketing and its the last thing I would spend money on at DTD as they already have a high profile status amongst regular poker players.

[AdamM]

I know you have no interest in doing so Rob, but I think you should consider maybe one roulette and blackjack table. Most players like an occasional game and you cant run at a loss forever!
Besides, you offered the casinos the offer of never having them and they declined

I'll bet you good money that wont happen 

[tikay]

I noticed a few comments on BP about dtd not renewing DC's sponsorship contract in 2008. I would like to say for the record that this has absolutley nothing to do with DC, it is 100% a consequence of the last 12-18 months of delays in the opening of the live club.

These delays have cost dtd over £950k in legal fees and running costs,  the online business has also made a net loss of £350k so far in 2007. Despite this financial crisis and the fact that I have been personally paying all costs , I still decided that dtd must still honour all financial committments for 2007 made with suppliers, employees and sponsored players (committments that were made with live club revenues in the financial budget).

After finally winning the fight to open the live club, we are now only 4 weeks away from opening the live club - but we are not opening a casino - we are only opening a poker club, with limited opportunity to make any instant profits.

Taking on contracts to sponsor poker players is simply not be an option in 2008,  the recent escalation in EPT and EWSOP buy-ins, makes it is even more unviable. It would be wholly unfair to take on committments that we could not afford at present, and there has to be some financial consquences of the last 12-18 months. It is very unfortunate that contracts such as DC's cannot be renewed, but there is not a "bottomless pit" in dtd, and I am personally really proud that we did not make any redundancies or try and duck out of any financial promises in 2007, when things have been really tough, going forward, we have to get ourselves back on our feet financially.

I have always been open about the postion at dtd, and that remains. Okay, we took on the big boys, and we won the battle, but we have plenty of scars to show for it. I really hope people can appreicate this.

Cheers Rob

A typically honest Post by Lord Yong.

I really hope people can appreicate this.

We at blonde most certainly do - very much so. It's speaks volumes for Rob that he's honoured all his committments, to, amongst others, Sponsored Pros, Staff, & blonde. (via the 2007 Sponsorship Deal), despite the horrendous delays in opening & the subsequent costs.

Now it's time for DTD to batten down the hatches & get some inbound cash-flow.

[tikay]

Thanks Rob, I didnt realise that the online dtd was running at a loss though, does surprise me...

With respect, he didn't say it was running at a loss (although it might be FAIK) but showing a net loss for 2007.

I'd assume (careful now), that the start-up costs (infrastructure, servers, upfront costs to the skin provider etc.) might be a factor there if my assumption is right.

Who cares is got nothing to do with us anyway. TBH I can't think of a faster way of pissing money away than sponsoring players, I work in sales and marketing and its the last thing I would spend money on with their current high profile status amongst regular poker players.

I would not quite use that form of words, but yes, you have a point.

I think of it this way. If a Sponsor (not specifically DTD, I mean any sponsor) takes on board a Pro at a cost of, say, £100,000 per annum, how can they quantify or measure the payback? And do they REALLY get £100k's worth of value back?

If youi subscribe to that logic, then think how much DTD have spent, on their "Pros Team" & re-do the sums - it's a HUGE amount of outgoing cash, & can anyone, hand on heart, prove - PROVE - that it has a cash-positive payback?

In DTD's case, they needed High-Profile at the time, for a reason. They (the Pros) did a great job in helping achieve that, but that job is complete now. Now Rob has to get the Cash-Flow moving in the opposite direction. If, in the fulness of time, he cannot do that, then DTD will not survive beyond the medium term.

I continue to back Rob 100%, & I'm ever more certain he can make it work now.

It's sad, of course, to see such popular & respected Pros not being on board the good ship DTD any more, & I wish them all well, but personally, I'd rather they were paid by the likes of Stars, or Party or whoever. Because it won't make a jot of difference to my allegiance to DTD, nor will it make any difference to anyone else, I fancy.

[Woodsey]

I agree with you totally Tony, just didn't have time to write a lengthy articulate post LOL

[robyong]

Replies to Posts

1. TK has hit the nail on the head - for the dtd Model to continue past the medium term (and no other model like it exists in the UK)  it has to be has be sustainable. The model does not include having roulette and blackjack tables, dtd is about being "dedicated to poker".

2. No - the dtd online business has lost £370k so far in 2007 in terms of running costs, not including capital expenditure and set up costs, but we are not alone, many other more established online businesses are losing money every month (but prefer not to admit it), it is now a highly competitive industry with very high direct costs such as rakeback, software fees and banking. Players assume that when they rake $1, the site gets all of that, it's more like 25cc, thats a fact. This 25cc then has to pay for marketing and adminsitration costs, of which sponsorship fees are part of "marketing".

3. To give you an example, in 2008, to sponsor a "name" professional player for the GUPT, EPT, EWSOP and WSOP events plus travel and hotels, you are looking at $250 - $300k. So, as a site, you would need to generate  $1m - $1.5m of rake to even breakeven. If dtd had been open 12 months ago, I am sure we would be in a totally different financial postion and able to have a much higher marketing budget in 2008, but unfortunatley, we have to be responsible, and ensure that all of the hard work setting the club up and getting the licence does result in a fantastic place for poker players.

4. My "open the club at all costs" attitude has been described by to me as "financially irresponsible" (in a nice way by people whose opinion I respect) but the live club fight became very personal for me over the last 18 months, and common sense business accumen went totally out of the window - I refused to cut running costs or stop the momentum ( I even ordered the poker chips with no licence!) as I did not want to give my opposers any smell of victory whatsever, now I have to make sure that we are here to stay, and reverse the cashflows at dtd. Of course I would like to have unlimited financial resources - but I do not.

In fact, maybe foolishly, I still take the whole dtd V Casino legal battle very personally, even though we won the case in the end. For example, Grovsvenor have now offered to lift my ban from their casinos, but after a few seconds thought, I know I am never stepping foot in one of their casinos again, even if there was a nuclear war in Luton and the Grovesnor Luton Casino was the only place safe to shelter.  Even though they were not one of the 3 official dtd objectors - I know that they would have been if they had a casino in Nottingham by their actions in banning me from their venues.

Hey - we all have our weaknesses, if we were all the same life would be so boring......but at least now poker players will have the option to play poker in a dedicated poker environment, but the costs of delivering this have hurt me substancially and I need to put my "steady the ship" hat on.

Cheers Rob