Intresting spot from stars 100f 4 handed

[Royal Flush]

PokerStars, $5000/10000 Hold'em Tournament, 4 Players
Hand Converter by Pokerhand.org

Board:
YrrsiNN (CO): $871,531
Aryamehr (Button): $192,896
helion (SB): $97,350
MKKMOO (BB): $728,223

Dealt to MKKMOO  

Pre-flop:
YrrsiNN raises to $24,000, (2 folds), MKKMOO calls $14,000

Flop: ($57,000)   (2 Players)
MKKMOO checks, YrrsiNN bets $34,000, MKKMOO calls $34,000

Turn: ($125,000)   (2 Players)
MKKMOO checks, YrrsiNN bets $71,000, MKKMOO calls $71,000

River: ($267,000)   (2 Players)
MKKMOO checks, YrrsiNN bets $170,600, MKKMOO calls $170,600



Ok so the 2 short stacks are playing this like a sit and go folding every hand trying to outlast eachother, one of them has just doubled 4/5 hands ago and so now its up to the other to make his move which obviously affects the dynamics loads, myself and the other big stack have similar images, good lag.

[AlexMartin]

tough spot. him cbetting this type of board then doubling the turn given board texture hasnt changed means its prolly a turn fold. Once you get to river i dunno, see so many players incapable of making thin value bets on end, might be a call given it narrows his range.

[pokerfan]

He had AQ

[EvilPie]

Given that the other 2 are folding pretty much everything I guess that you and the other big stack are still raising any 2 good connecting cards knowing that you're not going to get squeezed?

If that's the case then it's very tricky because there's a lot out there that beats you.

Has he been raising 45, 56, 67, 78 etc? He wouldn't normally with 2 short stacks but if they're totally passive he can safely make those plays here.

Personally I think I lead out for 60k on the turn. I know we don't like "find where you are bets" but I would see this more as a stopper for the river. If he raises the turn we can easily pass anyway because even if we're ahead we're very vulnerable to 2 overs that either hit or see the board pair again.

If he flats how likely is he to bet when we check the river? Unless he's got something very strong surely he's got to be careful?

If he's the bluffy type who may take a stab here we're also giving ourselves the chance to rebluff him if we fancy it.

How strong would a check raise look on the river from us? Could he see it as a full house? We're happy to have him check it down but if he wants to try it on maybe we could give him some back.

[cia260895]

I think he had either AJ or AQ suited and you knew he would push on the river,did you insta call it?

[EvilPie]

fwiw I think he had KJ or KQ and muffed you. Bastard!!!!!!

[MC]

As played, I'm surprised you don't shove the turn. Any 5, 6, A or K figures to be ugly on the river!

[Billygoat]

Does it not depend on his perception of you and what your range is in his eyes? Does his bet on the end always amount to air or the nuts. What I mean is, is he really trying to value bet on the end and if so what hands does he think you have that call, that he beats?

If his hand has showdown value, isnt he always checking behind on the river? Or can he turn up with the King after betting previous streets. This being said does it make your 22 a call always as he is more likely to have nothing than nut hands?

Basically as you can tell I havent got a clue but I am trying to understand the thought process behind both your call and his betting as it is no doubt deeper than I am able to think.

Cheers

[EvilPie]

As played, I'm surprised you don't shove the turn. Any 5, 6, A or K figures to be ugly on the river!

wtf??

690k in to a 180k pot? Isn't this often called a "donk shove"? How can this possibly be a good play?

We're far too deep to shove here and make his life easy. If that's the plan we might as well pass this hand, wait 'til next time he raises and shove atc hoping that he's not got anything.

[ACE2M]

As played, I'm surprised you don't shove the turn. Any 5, 6, A or K figures to be ugly on the river!

wtf??

690k in to a 180k pot? Isn't this often called a "donk shove"? How can this possibly be a good play?

We're far too deep to shove here and make his life easy. If that's the plan we might as well pass this hand, wait 'til next time he raises and shove atc hoping that he's not got anything.

beat me to it.

looks like value town to me, given you check called this far you have to look him up on the river, he could be 3 barreling against what could well be various draws and that gives cred to you calling the end.

[action man]

As played, I'm surprised you don't shove the turn. Any 5, 6, A or K figures to be ugly on the river!

good level

[MC]

As played, I'm surprised you don't shove the turn. Any 5, 6, A or K figures to be ugly on the river!

wtf??

690k in to a 180k pot? Isn't this often called a "donk shove"? How can this possibly be a good play?

We're far too deep to shove here and make his life easy. If that's the plan we might as well pass this hand, wait 'til next time he raises and shove atc hoping that he's not got anything.

Wow you're right, didn't realise we were quite so deep!

Looks like you played it about right once you've decided to call the flop.

It's pretty thin, I think you have to call the river cos air figures to be in his range. He's def betting AQ to represent that K, and pretty much any air hand. But of course he's gotten lucky with Kx and he might have had you the whole way. Would think he might check if Kx had him beat though....

[MC]

good level

Honest mis-read of stacks.

[action man]

am i the only one who flats pre and just folds the flop this deep?

[action man]

good level

Honest mis-read of stacks.

whatever the stacks are its a horrid shove, turning a hand with showdown value into a bluff. calling turn, calling river is >>>>>>>.. than shoving turn