Destroyed my Vegas dream....

[Royal Flush]

The important thing is you were the guy who pushed all-in and villain was forced to call all-in.

This is so wrong.

If you are deep enough you should be 4 betting to give the illusion that you might pass to a 5 bet, you want to be calling all in rather than jamming all in as this gives you a better expectation.

[MANTIS01]

The important thing is you were the guy who pushed all-in and villain was forced to call all-in.

This is so wrong.

If you are deep enough you should be 4 betting to give the illusion that you might pass to a 5 bet, you want to be calling all in rather than jamming all in as this gives you a better expectation.

the range I put him on (77 - 1010)

Sorry dude, run this by me again. You put villain squarely on a better hand than the one you've got and you want to encourage him to 5-bet his superior hand so you can call all-in with your worse hand?? I really would prefer to be so wrong, 4-bet jam and take the pot down with an inferior hand. This gives you a better expectation of staying in the tournament really.

[Longy]

The important thing is you were the guy who pushed all-in and villain was forced to call all-in.

This is so wrong.

If you are deep enough you should be 4 betting to give the illusion that you might pass to a 5 bet, you want to be calling all in rather than jamming all in as this gives you a better expectation.

the range I put him on (77 - 1010)

Sorry dude, run this by me again. You put villain squarely on a better hand than the one you've got and you want to encourage him to 5-bet his superior hand so you can call all-in with your worse hand?? I really would prefer to be so wrong, 4-bet jam and take the pot down with an inferior hand. This gives you a better expectation of staying in the tournament really.

His range isn't simply 77-1010 though is it, despite what OP says. It almost certainly includes aq and maybe some other hands we dominate.

[MANTIS01]

The important thing is you were the guy who pushed all-in and villain was forced to call all-in.

This is so wrong.

If you are deep enough you should be 4 betting to give the illusion that you might pass to a 5 bet, you want to be calling all in rather than jamming all in as this gives you a better expectation.

the range I put him on (77 - 1010)

Sorry dude, run this by me again. You put villain squarely on a better hand than the one you've got and you want to encourage him to 5-bet his superior hand so you can call all-in with your worse hand?? I really would prefer to be so wrong, 4-bet jam and take the pot down with an inferior hand. This gives you a better expectation of staying in the tournament really.

His range isn't simply 77-1010 though is it, despite what OP says. It almost certainly includes aq and maybe some other hands we dominate.

Oh shit, sorry, I didn't realise that's how PHA worked. So what we do is ignore what the op says about the guy he's sitting opposite...conclude we know his read is wrong...produce our own range...and answer that question instead. Makes sense now.

The guy is asking a strategy question based on HIS read of HIS opponent e.g. "I put my oppo on x so how should I proceed?" I think it's just much simpler to answer his question for him really.

[Longy]

The important thing is you were the guy who pushed all-in and villain was forced to call all-in.

This is so wrong.

If you are deep enough you should be 4 betting to give the illusion that you might pass to a 5 bet, you want to be calling all in rather than jamming all in as this gives you a better expectation.

the range I put him on (77 - 1010)

Sorry dude, run this by me again. You put villain squarely on a better hand than the one you've got and you want to encourage him to 5-bet his superior hand so you can call all-in with your worse hand?? I really would prefer to be so wrong, 4-bet jam and take the pot down with an inferior hand. This gives you a better expectation of staying in the tournament really.

His range isn't simply 77-1010 though is it, despite what OP says. It almost certainly includes aq and maybe some other hands we dominate.

Oh shit, sorry, I didn't realise that's how PHA worked. So what we do is ignore what the op says about the guy he's sitting opposite...conclude we know his read is wrong...produce our own range...and anwer that question instead. Makes sense now.

The guy is asking a strategy question based on HIS read of HIS opponent e.g. "I put my oppo on x so how should I proceed?" I think it's just much simpler to answer his question for him really.

I have yet to meet anyone who could range someone preflop on purely middle pairs here, but maybe I just don't soul read people like others.

[MANTIS01]

Yeah but dude it doesn't really matter whether his range turns out to be actually right or not (although it's prob closer to the truth than our completely speculative range). What matters is this guy puts his oppo on a pair and wants to know how to strat against that holding. Saying you aren't prepared to answer that question properly cos villain doesn't have that range and will show A-10 here sometimes and some other hands as well including prob 6-7 of diamonds and maybe J-9 makes things very stupid imo.

[Free_Rollin]

when i saw you posted a hand i so wanted it to be some kind of sick levelling war. if im correct i played you at DTD once and at the next months you made a truly sick call with like K high on day 2 for an enormous pot which was reported in the updates? am i thinking of the same guy?

as played this is pretty standard. Hes not gonna turn 99 into a bluff and 3b fold is he?

Yeah, Alex, same guy. Had a rough day when I was on the same table as you, think it was back in February.

The important thing is you were the guy who pushed all-in and villain was forced to call all-in. If you're gonna flip that's the way to go about it.

Also, I am sorry losing a flip destroyed your vegas dream.

Yeah, that's what i thought Mantis, but Flushy seems to disagree?

And, I know, it was such a nice dream aswell!

His range isn't simply 77-1010 though is it, despite what OP says. It almost certainly includes aq and maybe some other hands we dominate.

Yeah, originally, AJ+ was really what I included in his range, including infact, KJ+, QJ+, etc... however, I'll add the info about blinds and continue explaining.

IIRC, blinds were around the 500 - 1000 range, with no antes. I raised to about 3.4K, and he raises to around the 16K - 18K mark. The raise seemed just a tad too much, like he doesn't want to see a flop OOP, and I just seemed to put him more on the medium pocket pairs range. Hence, I hoped he would fold to a shove since I thought he wouldn't call in the 77-1010 range. The thing was, me and him were sitting really quite comfortable in chips. I could have folded to the 3 bet, but this seemed weak to me. I could have just 4 bet him, and played the flop, but as mentioned earlier, didn't feel that was the best play. Hence I shoved, since I didn't think he would play this far into day 1, and call pretty much his tournament life on a medium pocket pair.

[I KNOW IT]

The important thing is you were the guy who pushed all-in and villain was forced to call all-in.

This is so wrong.

If you are deep enough you should be 4 betting to give the illusion that you might pass to a 5 bet, you want to be calling all in rather than jamming all in as this gives you a better expectation.

the range I put him on (77 - 1010)

Sorry dude, run this by me again. You put villain squarely on a better hand than the one you've got and you want to encourage him to 5-bet his superior hand so you can call all-in with your worse hand?? I really would prefer to be so wrong, 4-bet jam and take the pot down with an inferior hand. This gives you a better expectation of staying in the tournament really.

His range isn't simply 77-1010 though is it, despite what OP says. It almost certainly includes aq and maybe some other hands we dominate.

Oh shit, sorry, I didn't realise that's how PHA worked. So what we do is ignore what the op says about the guy he's sitting opposite...conclude we know his read is wrong...produce our own range...and answer that question instead. Makes sense now.

The guy is asking a strategy question based on HIS read of HIS opponent e.g. "I put my oppo on x so how should I proceed?" I think it's just much simpler to answer his question for him really.

Wise Guy

[MANTIS01]

The important thing is you were the guy who pushed all-in and villain was forced to call all-in. If you're gonna flip that's the way to go about it.

Yeah, that's what i thought Mantis, but Flushy seems to disagree?

Yeah, well what does that fella know anyway? It's not like he's had any results lately. You absolutely did the right thing. Even if your oppo's 3-bet range does include weaker A's (and that is possible), his 5-bet range doesn't. After sitting there all day to get his stack together he's just not going to 5-bet with A-J after you've 4-bet half your stack. Quite simply nobody who plays poker is going to 4-bet fold in your live tournament situation...so you'd have to conjur some kind of David Copperfield illusion to make villain believe you would. His 5-bet range at this stage is only ever going to be pairs and A-K. But even if villain is kamikaze and you do get your chips in with some 60-40 coup, how's that ever better than taking down 20k uncontested?

[Royal Flush]

The important thing is you were the guy who pushed all-in and villain was forced to call all-in. If you're gonna flip that's the way to go about it.

Yeah, that's what i thought Mantis, but Flushy seems to disagree?

Yeah, well what does that fella know anyway? It's not like he's had any results lately. You absolutely did the right thing. Even if your oppo's 3-bet range does include weaker A's (and that is possible), his 5-bet range doesn't. After sitting there all day to get his stack together he's just not going to 5-bet with A-J after you've 4-bet half your stack. Quite simply nobody who plays poker is going to 4-bet fold in your live tournament situation...so you'd have to conjur some kind of David Copperfield illusion to make villain believe you would. His 5-bet range at this stage is only ever going to be pairs and A-K. But even if villain is kamikaze and you do get your chips in with some 60-40 coup, how's that ever better than taking down 20k uncontested?

Surely people still arent at the stage where they 3 bet with hands to fold??? Its 2009 FFS

They either 3bet to fold to a jam or 3bet to call a jam, he aint 3 betting a pair to fold, so don't try to make it him.

[MANTIS01]

The important thing is you were the guy who pushed all-in and villain was forced to call all-in. If you're gonna flip that's the way to go about it.

Yeah, that's what i thought Mantis, but Flushy seems to disagree?

Yeah, well what does that fella know anyway? It's not like he's had any results lately. You absolutely did the right thing. Even if your oppo's 3-bet range does include weaker A's (and that is possible), his 5-bet range doesn't. After sitting there all day to get his stack together he's just not going to 5-bet with A-J after you've 4-bet half your stack. Quite simply nobody who plays poker is going to 4-bet fold in your live tournament situation...so you'd have to conjur some kind of David Copperfield illusion to make villain believe you would. His 5-bet range at this stage is only ever going to be pairs and A-K. But even if villain is kamikaze and you do get your chips in with some 60-40 coup, how's that ever better than taking down 20k uncontested?

Surely people still arent at the stage where they 3 bet with hands to fold??? Its 2009 FFS

They either 3bet to fold to a jam or 3bet to call a jam, he aint 3 betting a pair to fold, so don't try to make it him.

No respect for live player's skillz imo. How hero ships his chips into the middle has a definite effect on the result. If hero insta-ships it's gonna convey a different message to a slow reluctant ship. Hero's body language can induce a call or it can deter a call. Saying live villain's mind is already made up for another 60xbb is internet tez imo. What is live poker if it isn't looking at your oppo and making a big decision based upon what you see? Villain has every right to 3-bet a lively hero with a genuine hand and should really fold to the jam imo. Villain wanting to call all-in to at best flip his big stack shows how good villain is at poker imo.

[Royal Flush]

The important thing is you were the guy who pushed all-in and villain was forced to call all-in. If you're gonna flip that's the way to go about it.

Yeah, that's what i thought Mantis, but Flushy seems to disagree?

Yeah, well what does that fella know anyway? It's not like he's had any results lately. You absolutely did the right thing. Even if your oppo's 3-bet range does include weaker A's (and that is possible), his 5-bet range doesn't. After sitting there all day to get his stack together he's just not going to 5-bet with A-J after you've 4-bet half your stack. Quite simply nobody who plays poker is going to 4-bet fold in your live tournament situation...so you'd have to conjur some kind of David Copperfield illusion to make villain believe you would. His 5-bet range at this stage is only ever going to be pairs and A-K. But even if villain is kamikaze and you do get your chips in with some 60-40 coup, how's that ever better than taking down 20k uncontested?

Surely people still arent at the stage where they 3 bet with hands to fold??? Its 2009 FFS

They either 3bet to fold to a jam or 3bet to call a jam, he aint 3 betting a pair to fold, so don't try to make it him.

No respect for live player's skillz imo. How hero ships his chips into the middle has a definite effect on the result. If hero insta-ships it's gonna convey a different message to a slow reluctant ship. Hero's body language can induce a call or it can deter a call. Saying live villain's mind is already made up for another 60xbb is internet tez imo. What is live poker if it isn't looking at your oppo and making a big decision based upon what you see? Villain has every right to 3-bet a lively hero with a genuine hand and should really fold to the jam imo. Villain wanting to call all-in to at best flip his big stack shows how good villain is at poker imo.

lol going out for the day now but this post put a smile on my face.

The games are still good guys!

[EvilPie]

You really need to be min raising wherever possible with this hand.

This will give you the best chance possible of making the fabled Miami 12 bet which you can then brag to you friends about because it had flair and showcased your 'mad skillz'.

It doesn't matter what you think your oppo had. As long as you played with flair you're allowed to get your money in when you know you're behind.

[Simon Galloway]

Like it.  You missed making the assumption that everyone is looking to 11-bet light.

[EvilPie]

Like it.  You missed making the assumption that everyone is looking to 11-bet light.

ldo. I didn't think I needed to point out assumptions like this.

Do you not know what year it is?