Extracting max value?

[EvilPie]

Live tournament first orbit blinds are 25/50 starting stack 5000.

I've got 6200 after a nice little pot 3rd hand in so cover all oppos.

Anyway I get  in MP in an unopened pot so raise to 150.

Neil Blatchley on the button calls SB and BB both call.

Flop comes something like  (Can't remember exactly but deffo 2 hearts)

The blinds both check and I bet 350 to see what happens and build a pot in case I hit.

Button calls, SB passes, BB calls.

Turn comes 

BB checks, I check because I think Blatch might take a stab here.

Sure enough he bets 675. BB calls.

What would be the best way to play this? Should I give a free card and risk someone hitting a bigger flush or just raise it now and hopefully take the 2.8k that's there?

[thetank]

Get it in, all-in, for value.

Not to protect your hand against higher hearts and sets, but to get value from them because at this point in time your hand is %% likely to be best at showdown.

If they bink on river you pay them off, so make sure to get it in on turn when you get paid even if they don't bink.

If they all fold, so be it.

[Blatch]

I wont give too much away about the hand but will correct what you have said so far

Flop was  , you led as stated and then checked the  to me on the turn.

[thetank]

Quite important, and even more reason to get it in on turn then.

Cards like offsuit fours, sevens and nines can now kill your river action

[MANTIS01]

Leading out on the turn is better imo. Players behind can still raise generating a bigger pot, and if you do get a call then checking the river almost certainly generates further action from your oppo.

[EvilPie]

Sorry about not updating this. Been away for a bit.

Anyway thanks Neil for correcting the hand.

So I decide to raise to 2200.

Neil dwells before passing.

BB dwells and then shoves.

Is there any way in the world that I should consider a pass here?

[Blatch]

What did you have him on and what was the reason for you raising?

What do you think the BB has you on?

[AlexMartin]

i just call now, unlikely to give you action here with worse and you stop him bluffing if you take a line this strong most of the time.

[daviebhoy]

I agree with what is being said. Check-raising here after leading flop is like standing on top of the table and shouting, "I have a flush"

I like leading turn - would of been interesting to see what BB did there and I think you could put him on more hands you beat if he raises.

I guess the question is why did BB shove ? He just calls the initial bet then shoves your check/raise when flush hits - that is pretty strong. Surely the only time he doesn't show the nuts here multiway is when he is semi-bluffing with but that can't happen all that often.

[EvilPie]

What did you have him on and what was the reason for you raising?

What do you think the BB has you on?

I wasn't thinking too much about the BB until he called your flop bet to be honest.

I wasn't expecting to get paid at all hence the check on the flop to give you the chance to take a stab.

When the BB flats your bet I put him on either a small flush, a set or the nut flush draw. If he's got the nuts I've resigned myself to being coolered.

I'm hoping the BB and yourself are putting me on AK and have something better yourselves. Leading the flop is fairly standard here for AK and then check raising I'm hoping makes you both think AK with the 

I don't want to give a free card then end up kicking myself if one of you hits the nut flush but I also want to give you both the chance to shove a set, small flush or 

When the BB shoves I obviously snap call but should I?

What did you have the BB on? Were you more worried about him than me?

[Blatch]

A few things dont make sense in your reply, im not sure if your getting a bit confusded with how the action went.  You made the bet on the flop and then you check raised my bet on the turn.

When you led the flop, I wasnt overly sure on your holding but had narrowed your range, personally at the time I though you were strong.  When I flat called and then the BB also flat calls you have to know he is drawing.  I doubt the BB would flat with a set, and therefore has to be drawing to the flush.  When the flush filled on the turn it also filled a few straight draws too and you you both checked to me.  At the time you checked I actually thought you had KK for top set and so I put a small ish bet out to find out where I was with the BB.  After the turn I was definatly more worried about the BB than yourself. 

When he flat calls my bet I then know im beat and for the hands I had you on, I had him beating you as well.

When you then check raise, it seemed a weak check raise to me, almost as if you were then testing me thinking I was just nicking as it was checked round to me with a good card for me to represent appearing.  Had the guy behind me not been in the pot I think we would have got it in then and there. 

Then when the guy shoves on you personally I would have to fold any flush below Queen high.  You have told him your strong and the way he has played it he has nothing but the flush here. 

[EvilPie]

When you then check raise, it seemed a weak check raise to me, almost as if you were then testing me thinking I was just nicking as it was checked round to me with a good card for me to represent appearing.  Had the guy behind me not been in the pot I think we would have got it in then and there. 
 

That's how it was supposed to look so at least I got that bit right 

When the guy shoves I know that I could be in trouble but there's too much in there to pass with 2 to the flush and 1200 back if I get it wrong.

If it's for all my chips I probably have a think and find a pass but as it stood I had to snap him off. Oops!!

[Simon Galloway]

Funny old game.  SB wants the check raise to look weak to the button.  Button thinks the check raise looks weak/testy and wants to get it in, but when the BB gets in the way, you 'told him you were strong' so the BB was meant to be sold a different story than the button. Is it not possible that the BB interpreted the info along the same lines as the button?  It obviously wasn't relevant to the outcome because I suspect the BB had the crown jewels here and wasn't even thinking about what anyone else had.  But it's no mean feat to be able to convince different players different hand strengths with the same action.

[EvilPie]

Funny old game.  SB wants the check raise to look weak to the button.  Button thinks the check raise looks weak/testy and wants to get it in, but when the BB gets in the way, you 'told him you were strong' so the BB was meant to be sold a different story than the button. Is it not possible that the BB interpreted the info along the same lines as the button?  It obviously wasn't relevant to the outcome because I suspect the BB had the crown jewels here and wasn't even thinking about what anyone else had.  But it's no mean feat to be able to convince different players different hand strengths with the same action.

I don't think BB was interpreting anything to be honest. He was just playing his cards with no regard to what the action was anywhere else.

This may sound harsh but seeing his play for the next 2 hours is where this comes from.

I was MP btw. My check raise was supposed to look weak to Blatch because I know that he can read the game and see a weak looking bet. BB obviously spoiled things for him and then me as well when he shoved.

I insta called the BB's shove and got shown  .

I think without the  being on the board I possibly find a pass but I don't know where from. I'd have to look very hard to find it. I think with 2 to the flush I have him beat often enough to make this call profitable.

Just seems like one of those hands where you start off thinking of how to maximise your value then when it goes as high as it possibly can you have to wonder if you should be getting out?

[Simon Galloway]

I'm sure you already had your suspicions about BB being suspectand therefore I would be in a similar position as you can't give him 'only the flush', not as delighted about it as I was when the  first binked, but a hand I was prepared to go broke on.